Wanky Viewport IPR vs IPR with Substance 2 Materials

[wxyz]

Wanky Viewport IPR vs IPR with Substance 2 Materials

[hermit.crab]

Could you attach the illustrated scene along with the substance material file in question so we can take a look? Or send it via the contact form, addressed to me in the subject, and a link to this thread in the message.

[fixeighted]

I was going to post the same thing. No substances that I tried work in IPR, though they work in production, so it's easy to test.
Unless there is something else happening with mine and the OP's Max install.
Here's a simple test https://www.dropbox.com/s/mx424c65f9...E_IPR.rar?dl=0

[fixeighted]

As an update to this, I just installed the latest plugin version for Max 21 and this particular issue is gone

EDIT: Sadly, it is quite a bit crashy. I tested a sphere and, with IPR running it crashed every time when changing the size of the map. That is fine and not a problem to avoid,
however it also just crashes during random parameter tweaking with no clear reason. The interface is generally very slow. It's not something
that I'd say is very useable or fun with IPR, without being extremely careful and saving before literally every change.
I did compare with scanline and physical materials and there seems to be no simlar issues.

[hermit.crab]

Try updating to the latest 3ds max 2021 update as well (2021.3) and see if that clears it out.

[fixeighted]

I'm updated to the latest already.

[hermit.crab]

Does not seem to crash with the provided scene on my end (gif). Could you send the generated .dmp file (located in the windows temp folder) after the crash? Make sure it is from this particular scene.

[fixeighted]

Well, I have no explanation, but I tested this before posting earlier for a good couple of hours, getting the crashes etc. and yet now, over the course of a few minutes the behaviour has
changed dramatically.
Based on your gif I just re-tested that scene and was getting really slow updates just changing, as you did, from e.g. 32 to 515 to etc....5 seconds up to 9 seconds to refresh.
So I swapped out the wood substance for the one that made it crash earlier today, a brick generator, and that instantly was as expected, not instant but only a second or two, and did not crash at all.
I then swapped back to the wood and the updates were again quicker.
So it is almost like it needs time to 'warm up' and that doesn't make much sense to me.
Both substances are on the same fast ssd, so it's not that.
I have no other apps running, so the tests are the same effectively as they were this morning.

[aida]

I've had trouble with crashes too when tweaking substance parameters in slate material editor while IPR. It seems to be related to the small render button in the lower left corner of the slate window. When it's active and material/map previews are rendered on the fly while IPR is rendering, Max crashes very often.
Maybe it's more obvious when the Scene Materials tab of the Material/Map Browser is open so these thumbnails are constantly updated when moving the parameter sliders of substance node. (see attched screenshot)
However, when I deactivated the small render button in slate material editor IPR runs quite stable.

I have attached a max and a sbsar file. Can anyone confirm my observations?

[fixeighted]

Well that is just horrible. It hasn't crashed but is instantly too annoying to even consider using.
Even with the rendering disabled, just selection of any node (without changing any other parameter) takes maybe 3 to 4 seconds to 'update',
or whatever it is doing. Scale that up to an actual scene and it is not a workable scenario.

Just for info, my rig consists of 3950x 16 core, 64 ram, 2080ti.

EDIT: Actually no, it isn't working at all in IPR....it renders just black diffuse, not the actual substance, which only renders production.
Max 21.

EDIT 2: I just tested this in Max 20 and there is no issue at all. So it's either a Max thing or a Vray thing. My Max 20 has Vray Next 3.1 and Max 21 is Vray 5.1

[aida]

That's strange. Which version of substance are you using? And Max 2021 with the latest update? The problem that IPR does not render the substance I had with previous versions of the Substance plugin.
My rig: Ryzen 3900x, 64 GB ram, GTX1070, Max 2021.3 with Vray 4.30.2, Substance 2.42

Selection of nodes in the material editor is no issue here. Updates after changing parameters greatly depend on the selected resolution and complexity of the substance.
But there are other issues:
- Working with presets is not reliable. Some parameters are not saved and thus not restored when switching presets (In my example scene it's the "Cut amount" paramter)
- Animation of parameters is being deleted when switching presets.
I think that's rather a substance plugin or Max issue and not related to Vray. However, it's not really usable in a production environment.

[wxyz]

vray_adv_51001_max2021_x64
RTX2080S
Ryzen3960X

SBAR's still have crazy uv's in the V-Ray Viewport IPR

[RobH22]

I'm having multiple problems with Substance2 materials in Max 2022 and VRay. I'm using VRay 5, update 1.3 and Substance for Max 2.4.4. Using more than one Substance2 absolutely cripples the system. I made 6 cubes and put a Substance2 on each one. So, only 36 faces and my FPS was about 2 when it wasn't freezing for a few seconds. I was running IPR. Then, I just touched a cube to move it and crash. This happens frequently and is repeatable. My scene with the cubes was just to test things as I had a much larger scene that was just impossible to work with. So to diagnose, I wanted to make sure the problem as not in poly count or bad geometry.

The problems I experience with Substance in Max 2022 makes Substances completely unusable for any production work. What's worse, Baking the textures out and connecting them to a material to eliminate the Substance is not a friendly process. We need a script to do that.I spent 3 hours on 5 substances trying to get them to look the same with bitmaps and a Vraymtl. That's just not a good solution.


System:
V-Ray 5, 3ds Max (3D Studio thru Max 2022), GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Master Motherboard, Ryzen 9 3950x CPU, Noctua NH-D15S CPU Cooler, 128 GB G.SKILL Trident Z Neo DDR4 Ram, NVidia RTX 2080 Ti, Space Pilot Pro, Windows 10, Tri-Monitor, Cintiq 13HD

[DanSHP]

I'm having multiple problems with Substance2 materials in Max 2022 and VRay. I'm using VRay 5, update 1.3 and Substance for Max 2.4.4. Using more than one Substance2 absolutely cripples the system. I made 6 cubes and put a Substance2 on each one. So, only 36 faces and my FPS was about 2 when it wasn't freezing for a few seconds. I was running IPR. Then, I just touched a cube to move it and crash. This happens frequently and is repeatable. My scene with the cubes was just to test things as I had a much larger scene that was just impossible to work with. So to diagnose, I wanted to make sure the problem as not in poly count or bad geometry.

The problems I experience with Substance in Max 2022 makes Substances completely unusable for any production work. What's worse, Baking the textures out and connecting them to a material to eliminate the Substance is not a friendly process. We need a script to do that.I spent 3 hours on 5 substances trying to get them to look the same with bitmaps and a Vraymtl. That's just not a good solution.


System:
V-Ray 5, 3ds Max (3D Studio thru Max 2022), GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Master Motherboard, Ryzen 9 3950x CPU, Noctua NH-D15S CPU Cooler, 128 GB G.SKILL Trident Z Neo DDR4 Ram, NVidia RTX 2080 Ti, Space Pilot Pro, Windows 10, Tri-Monitor, Cintiq 13HD

Did you ever resolve the issue?

[^Lele^]

Substance does not have a max 2022-compatible plugin.
They list up to v. 2021, and while the plugin may load in 2022, running it is a risk entirely on the user's account, unfortunately (the msi package was authored on the 18th of December 2020. well before max 2022 came out.).
For what is worth, the latest substance 2 plugin, in max 2018, with the latest v-ray gave me absolutely no issue.