System hangs and locks at render end

[OPEN_RANGE]

I'm having a real problem with a scene. It renders and right a the end after it's all done the system locks and I cannot save it. I have tried keeping save render file un checked and then saving from the frame buffer but that doesn't work either.

I have had d this problem before with an entirely different scene a couple of years ago.

This is killing me and I am getting kind of desperate. I did find a mini dump file from on of the crashes. It is attached.

This is a large project (for me) I have render two exteriors and now I am rendering interiors. I have everything not relevant to the current view hidden. I am rendering two views in one interior space. Kitchen and Living. With Kitchen I got the final render and was able to save form frame buffer. Now with Living I cannot even do that so.....

I have tried to attached a mini dump file but it's larger than 2M so I cannot attach it.. I would gladly send you that and the scene file if you can provide info re where to send it.

Please help if possible. Thanks!

[nikoleta.garkova]

Hi OPEN_RANGE,

Please forward the minidump along with the scene file so we can troubleshoot. You can send it via our contact form, just make sure to mention this thread in the email. Thanks!

[OPEN_RANGE]

I have sent two support request via your contact form. Included a link to the max file, it was too big to upload via your form

thanks!

[OPEN_RANGE]

Hi. Well by deleting out all of the hidden stuff not pertinent to the scene...I got the render to complete ad then I could save as .exr from the frame buffer.

It is advantageous to the project that I keep all the elements in one big file. But, deleting all the exterior stuff, including lots of forest pack, terrain topology and all the other elements of the structures not to be visible in these individual interior renderings seems to have been what was needed. I guess the file just got too big.

No need to use any of your time looking at the scene I sent you a link to.

In a way, deleting all that stuff so I could pare down what I sent you provided the fix. So in that sense....you fixed it for me.

thanks for your help!

[^Lele^]

It's the issue with procedural systems.
Max has a *ton* of stuff that needs to happen in the background, so that, f.e., spinners adjust things in realtime.
If you have distributions, scatters, or even heavy modifier stacks, those will need to be reprocessed once the render stage has finished.
Max gets back control, the viewports need refreshing, and to do so a full scene evaluation needs to happen.
That things are hidden or not often makes little difference, and the amount of computation needed (often single-core) to get the background messaging going will at some specific point (meaning, after a certain number of nodes are at play in a given scene) cave in.

[OPEN_RANGE]

OK thanks for that info Lele. I don't have any heavy modifier stacks. I had a moderate amount of forest pack stuff but almost all of that was hidden. I always wondered if hidden objects and etc were still playing a part in the overall scene performance and rendering overhead. If I understand what you are saying the answer is yes, often hidden stuff is requiring processing/reprocessing.

Possibly if I had a CPU with more cores I could handle larger scene files without hitting the lockup threshold at render end when all the reprocessing takes place to refresh the Max scene as you describe ?

[^Lele^]

Rather a CPU with higher clock/boost speeds.
That's because most of those processes are not multi-threaded (many, because it can't be done.), and so will hammer the first core until done.

Consider i discovered the "messaging" (the stuff going on behind closed doors.) while preparing a converter for internal use.
Everything went swimmingly with materials and maps, incredibly, but as i started the conversion of lights, performance degraded severely.
As i tested the issue, adding more lights to the source scene meant having the converter finish and call it done, and max sitting there without a responsive UI, the first core/two threads hammered.
The converted lights were Arnold's lights (this to say, it's not like i'm trying to cover for our coding practices.), and having them hidden made absolutely no difference, as made no difference whatsoever changing display modes, freezing viewports, whatever normally is sensible wouldn't work.
There is a single maxscript command which stops said messaging, and when i used it, the conversion of a 1000 lights went from three minutes to 8 seconds.
Thing is, the lights were there, but would be utterly unusable, and wouldn't render at all.

I don't mean to say there is no bug afoot, though.
Perhaps ask a similar question to the Itoosoft guys and see what they think, maybe they can somehow make it quicker, they're definitely much more knowledgeable than I!

[OPEN_RANGE]

I'm thinking that what you are describing is not the cause of problem I am having.

I have now completed a rendering of another room. I deleted everything out of the scene that wasn't pertinent to the small room being rendered. The scene is now 126Meg size Max file with 2,409,000 faces. There are no Forest Pack scatters or anything with a complex modifier stack.

Problem still exists. If I have save vrimage file checked in the vray render setting>frame buffer then the scene renders, lens effects are applied, de-noiser is applied. file save goes almost o completion and then system locks. I find a partially rendered .exr file has been saved tha ti can open in photoshop. It has all the layer elements but is only rendered a certain distance down from the top of the image and the rest is black.

So, the scene render never completes to the point where Max is now re-processing all the stuff you explain occurs after render end.

If I leave the save file un-checked in the vray frame buffer diqlog, I can get the scene to complete and not have a system lock (most of the time). Then i save the image directly from the frame buffer. That .exr image is a single layer. Saving with the vray frame buffer setting "save vrimage" checked results in an incomplete .exr saved that has all the render elements on individual layers and cause a system lock.

Nickoleta - Are you still following this? Also are you analyzing the scene file I sent? I could send you this latest, even further stripped down, scene file that still has the same problem if that would be of any help. Also I can send a max mini dump file generated by one of yesterdays many system locks I had.

I have attached a rendering that I manged to get completed of the very simple scene I am currently having this trouble with.

[^Lele^]

Where's the image being saved to, and what's the filesize, or the resolution and REs?
I render and save daily all sorts of bonkers stuff off the VFB, and get zero such issues, but i save to a local SSD.

[OPEN_RANGE]

Lele, The image is being saved to a SSD (drive D: that is separate from, but in the same machine as, the drive the OS and Max are installed on (drive C: which is also an SSD). D: has 600G free space. C: has 207G free space.

My final render size is 3800 x 2533 pixels.

It's difficult to explain clearly but I can (usually but not always) save directly from the VFB without a system lock up. I save as .exr and the resulting file is a single layer with the effects (lens, de-noiser, light mixer) "baked" in.

When I check the box in the render dialog box under Vray>Frame Buffer to "save vrimage" then on render end it "tries" to save the .exr file to the folder I specify. I end up with a system lock up and an .exr file gets saved. BUT that file has only a small bit of the top of the rendering included the rest of the image is black. The other difference is that when saving that way, thru the render settings vray frame buffer dialog check box, the resulting .exr is made up of like 10 or more layers of all the render elements. (I only have render elements de-noiser and light mixer active.)

I also should mention I have not had this trouble on other recent projects using the same system and Max/Vray versions. This is a large house made up of three separate structures and lots of patio space, surrounding terrain and etc. I did not have this problem rendering the exteriors which had one render element, light mixer.. Only when I started rendering the interiors and using lens effect, de-noiser and light mixer did this start

Attached exterior rendering to show what I'm talking about.

Thanks for your ongoing help!

[^Lele^]

I just had a chat with the dev.

Does it happen if:
a) You do not denoise and/or apply lens effect
b) You use either of the above, without hardware acceleration active

That only a few scanlines are shown is very odd, as the buffer is filled as you see it in the VFB, the file saving is a dump (i.e. as quick as hardware allows) of that data you see.
It could therefore be some issue with the rendering of the effects, perhaps some outdated driver.
We'll know by trying (support will be on this as well, no worries.).

p.s.: When you save the single image from the VFB, the layers are not saved (you need the other option, below it, from the same menu, for them to be saved.).

[OPEN_RANGE]

OK I will try to test without de-noiser and lens effects. I have to say that all these system lock ups requiring pushing the reset button are causing me a lot of anxiety. It is not good for the system.

I do not need the multi layer file I prefer just having it all baked in to one layer.

Thank you for your help!

[^Lele^]

If it's the hardware acceleration, it could be either bad drivers (easy to update) or a cooking piece of hardware (argh.).
That is, provided it's not in our code (but i couldn't repro it here.).

[OPEN_RANGE]

So I can un-check hardware acceleration and still get the same results just a bit more time required? Uncheck hardware acceleration for lens effect and de-noiser?

Bad drivers means the driver for my graphics card RTX 2060? I have always updated to the most current studio driver as it comes out, which is pretty frequently.

You rendered the scene I sent and could not reproduce the problem?

Thank you so much for you ongoing and very valuable help!

[^Lele^]

So I can un-check hardware acceleration and still get the same results just a bit more time required? Uncheck hardware acceleration for lens effect and de-noiser?

Correct, they then run on CPU

Bad drivers means the driver for my graphics card RTX 2060? I have always updated to the most current studio driver as it comes out, which is pretty frequently.

Yeah. Maybe some version (even if current) is hiccupping, for whatever reason.

You rendered the scene I sent and could not reproduce the problem?

No, i haven't had access to it yet, specifically.
I tried saving out from the renderer, applying denoise and lens effect specifically.

Thank you so much for you ongoing and very valuable help!

You're very welcome, let's hope fora simple and painless solution.