Max Windows Suck...?

[pentool]

I was wondering that all of you who create those xtraordinary renderings, what kind of window do you use? Is that something that you made? Or is it one of Max's window?

I'm just getting my feet wet with some architectural renderings. VERY basic stuff. So I placed Max's standard sliding window into the opening and Holy Toledo! I got black blotches all around the frame. Even with high quality settings (HSph=50; Interp. sample=50), the black blothces are even worse (I use irradiance map with QMC). I've been practicing with various basic lighting for a few months now, and bought both interior and exterior gnomon Vray DVDs, so I feel comfortable with the settings and such in general.

So after some frustrating moments, I trashed Max's sliding window, and created a basic rectangle spline and gave it some thickness by extruding it and placed it as the window frame. Lo and behold! Even at low quality setting (HSph/Interp samples = 20/20) the window frame looks spotless and beautiful.

So this made me think if there's something wrong with Max's windows? What is your experience? What do you use for windows in your renderings?

TX

[RErender]

yep max windows are crap, they create a bunch of coplanar faces, so unless you clean those up...

[pentool]

arghh... grrr... brrr.... (etc) in this case why the heck autodesk still have it in there? or at least they could clean it up. I guess I will just create my own windoz.

anyhow, thanks for the reply!

[SteveC]

create your own windows, best way to go, far fewer polys than those
mac things

[Syclone1]

actually I have used the aec windows quite a bit in the past and although they can suck, you can get rid of the bloches by changing the secondary rays bias to something like "0.001" and that should remove the bloches.

-dave

[pentool]

Well, what do you know... Syclone, you're right. It does help! Thanks!

[Syclone1]

Well, what do you know... Syclone, you're right. It does help! Thanks!

[ene.xis]

they suck anyway....

[Giovanni]

Nonsense.

They are just what they are: parametric windows and doors, very useful if you have been around the block for more than a week.

You can customized them to make a lot of different objects / architectural systems, and you can animate their opening / sliding.

The co-planar faces problem is a given, if you model them with all their parts (jams, trims, etc.). To avoid splothces, just use the ray bias.

They render fine in MAX scanline, where overlapping faces are less of a problem.

This is why "the heck autodesk still have it in there"...


regards

gio

[Syclone1]

lol ok guys lets not turn this in to a flame war the AEC objects are like PC and MAC some like em and some don't...

-dave

[Candelero]

OK , Chill out guys !

Here is a very Simple TUT how to model your own windows, which are probably much better than any rest. Why - Because you have control.

So:

Step 1:
Start from a simple < Rectangle > shape.
Convert it to Spline , and select the spline sub-level object. Now we are going to make an offset of the spline, which will shape our frame window.


Step 2:
Make the Outline (Offset) and then apply < Extrude > mod over our object.
If the extrusion is not CAPPED, make sure you don't have any unwelded vertexes. This usually happens if you are drawing the shape by hand from lines.


Step 3:
Convert the object to Editable Poly.
Why is this needed ? Because I intend to smooth the edges later by applying some chamfers on them.
So, we converted to poly, but you will notice that UGLY edge we got there.
That edge can appear in either of the 4 sides of the frame, because MAX cannot know where is the Beginning and where is the End of that poly face. That's why it decides to cut it with 1 edge more.


Step 4:
So, here is the TRICKY part. I am going to fix that kind of topology, as it will cause us problems later on with the chamfers. You will see what I mean in next step.
Now - Select that poly face, and Delete it. Here is the result.


Step 5:
Go to sub-level Border and do < Ctrl+A >. This will tell MAX to select all the open boreders that may be found. In our case those are the 2 we have - the outer and the inner line of our fancy window. Click Bridge from the Editable Poly functions. You can see the result.
Now that is much much better as topology, because we have quads and now the problem with the chamfers would be OFF.


Step 6:
Repeat the same on the other back-side of the window frame.


Step 7:
So now, the chamfer problem.
The left frame is our fancy one, which is corrected. The right one is just the
extruded spline and converted to Poly. You can see the WIRE difference clearly.
Now if we apply a chamfer over all the edges, you can see that the topology is not gonna break (will remain quads) and that will give us the
so-wanted HIGHLIGHT detail geometry.


Step 8:
Chamfer applied on both objects. See the wire difference ! The left is correct and the right one is wrong, as the edges are intersecting each other.


Step 9:
So, getting back on our frame window, we are going to apply chamfer twice. Remember that the first is the bigger value and the 2nd is the smaller one. As we won't release the selected edges, before applying the 2nd chamfer. I have added the rotating window frame as well.


Step 10:
Render !


Follows the WORST part - how to model the Glass

That's it ! Takes 1 minute to model a CORRECT topology window !
ENJOY !


Best regards,
nikki Candelero

[pentool]

Hey that's pretty good! Thanks for the tip! I already did mine but I converted to mesh as opposed to poly so that it won't gimme the extra edge. But I'm gonna try it this way, too. Here's my result so far (just very basic).

[Candelero]

Hey that's pretty good! Thanks for the tip! I already did mine but I converted to mesh as opposed to poly so that it won't gimme the extra edge. But I'm gonna try it this way, too. Here's my result so far (just very basic).

Sure there is - you just don't see it. The Mesh is triangled in its topology.
So here comes the answer of a probably following question.

The poly model, which I showed is much easier to texture (for example with a WOODEN map, as the texture should follow the lenght of the frame). So you can quite fast separate 2 IDs, for the X and Y directions of the texture and apply 2 UV maps mods, over it to have the texture correctly set. I mean this:


With the mesh topology you cannot do it, as in the final you will reach the idea, you need that diagonal edge.

[tct70]

Nikki,

That's great...................had all sorts of problems with this in the past - most helpfull.........!!!

[pentool]

With the mesh topology you cannot do it, as in the final you will reach the idea, you need that diagonal edge.

hehe... true! you got me!

PS: What if I'm a lousy carpenter and make window frames from rectangle beams