Sun & Sky issue....

[bernhard]

Hello friends !

I just switched today to the new Sun & Sky System.
For some reason, I can't get my test file done.

Testrender with my old settings:


Here is a test render with the new Sun and Sky system:



The colors are to strong, saturated, the sun is to strong and burns out the walls and I can't get that done. If I switch to the legacy mode and use my old method it's fine, but I want to use the last up to date version

Here is the simple file for download:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/ask/ss_test.max

well, I should get a nice and clean look - but for some reason I can't solve that issue, but I guess it must be somehting again with the gamma settings.
thx for every little help,
bernhard

[vlado]

Your materials appear to be way too reflective; a white wall typically reflects only about 60% of light (e.g. RGB 153, 153, 153). Since the material in the scene is pure white, you get these blowouts.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Morne]

Bernhard, was your previous file done with RWF method or LWF or just no gamma?

[bernhard]

???

Hello friends !

@vlado;
I used a standard material with no reflection - so this is really strange.


I used a vray material too, same result.
In this scene file, I used straight the LWF. But I would say, that the bitmaps are not very important for this test file, because in the first file I used just one gras texture, and now in the second, no more bitmaps, just straight materials.

and look at this: also, no reflection....


Well, not sure what to say, I just can't get that done.
I start with a brand new empty scene file, use straight the Sund and Sky System, physical camera and and a simple box geometri for the buildings and kabummm.....
haha, seems to be the son good means it very good with me... lol:

I guess there must be something wrong with the gamma..... but I can't figure it out.

Do you have a documentation, what was changed from the previous sun & sky version to the newest ? I know that the values ahve cahnged, but I don't know the specific values.... mmm....

you can see the result with my old settings, and I am convinced I must get the same result with the new Sun & Sky System values..... but I would need to know the changes...
any little help would be great, I am sure together we can fix that very fast....


@DVP3:
Which previous version do you mean ?
I make some new tests, and I could find out something very interesting, but I need to understand first my issue with the new sun and sky sytem.....

Thx for every little help,
appreciate that,

bernhard

ps: scene file is above for download.....

[glorybound]

Bright

Have you checked the usual default max settings? disable the default and hidden lights. Make sure the MAX exposure us turned off. Just a guess

[vlado]

I meant the diffuse color of the material. It also counts towards the total light reflectivity of the object.

Best regards,
Vlado

[ene.xis]

ur materials are waay to white!
my white walls are usually around 180rgb!
nonetheless i d say something wacky is going on in there!

[^Lele^]

This has been discussed for ages, Vlado mentioned it first here :
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forums/vbu...n+sky+material
and then here:
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forums/vbu...72&postcount=2

and it's at the very base of my video tutorial (and humongous thread) on sun, sky and physcam, here:
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forums/vbu...n+sky+material

do make use of forum search, your best friend.

[bernhard]

ufff..

Hello friends and thank you very much for all your help.

@glorybound:
yeah, all the default lights are turned off, I double checked it again.
hmm, you can download the scene file and see what's going on....
or maybe it's a max2008 issue ?

@vlado:
hmm, well so do you mean you usually have no more white with a value of 255 ?
I made another quick test, with a vray material, diffuse white to 180, and no reflection.

look at that:


Also I am surprised regarding the sky.
I use just the standard values 1 for the sun intensity and 1 for the Sky.
The physical camera has ISO 100, and 250 shutter speed, F-number: 8
so nothing unusual, but why is the sky as dark ?

It should be a very hot and bright sunny day, the sun is bruning down, yeah, but on the walls to strong and the sky is really to dark.... lol:

like I said, I can't get that scene done.... its' crazy....

one thing, that's for sure, is that there is somethign wrong with the gamma.
here the same render, but with gamma 2.2 in the output...


comes closer, but I still have the issue with the sun or the burned out wall .....


@ene.xis:
about the white: did I miss something very important ?
Why can't be white anymore with a value of 255 with the new sun and sky system ?


@lele:
yeah thx for the links, I see these links first time.... like I said, I missed something... and lol: yeah, I was searching for, like always I do that first, but couldn't find...
thx alot !



uuuahh, now I am really confused,
thx for every little help,
bernhard

[bernhard]

hmmm

Thank you guys !

@Lele:
Perfect, that thread was exactly what I was looking for.
Allright, I used now the lower settings in the colors, and decreased the level to 120.



And let's say it is really like that, that 120 is white and 120 values are left for reflection so together it's 240 and clsoe to 250 RGB white.

I guess it's physical correct, but of course it's confusing with the max material editor, right ?
I hope I didn't miss something again.... lol:
But that's still a bit confusing, because you can't see the white color in the material editor...

- Are there any solutions out, that mabye let you see 120 grey as white in the mat editor ?
- How do you guys handle this ?
- And what can you do, if you have an older scene file, how would you like to transform to the new settings ? Changing all materials could be really a hard job.....


Ok, I will make some more tests - I think it should work very well now.

Thank you again and happy rendering,
bernhard

[bernhard]

allright....

allright, tested this scene file real quick:

with the new settings:


compared to the old settings:


I am really not sure wha looks better. In the new render I do have a much harder and darker shadows, also I would say, that the wall isn't really white, like in the old render... the sun is more influencing, but of course, the color isn't anymore 255.....

regarding the shadows:
any ideas how we could control the intensity of the shadows ?


thx,
bernhard

[rmejia]

I tried out your scene and got these results:


I first only changed the Color Mapping to Reinhard and used the Burn values 0.8 and 0.5
The first two renders are with the standard materials the file had, then I ran the V-Ray scene converter and re rendered the scene. I did not change anything else.

[jujubee]

Ah - you're finally experiencing the Vraysky issues I encounter with LWF (which is quite similar to RWF.) I never realized you were using the old sun/sky system to produce your results until now.

The reason I stay away from Lele's method is due to the fact that you have to lower all your materials to a much visually darker setting in the material editor. this does make things rather inconvenient.

I'd hope that we could have kept your original method, but for there to be an actual fix within Vray for its sky system.

[Shimakaze]

which is quite similar to RWF.

Not just "quite"

Anyway it looks fine to me.
Just set the f-number for the camera up to 10 and use VRayColor maps in the color swatches (if you don't have a proper texture) so they get gamma corrected.

[^Lele^]

The reason I stay away from Lele's method is due to the fact that you have to lower all your materials to a much visually darker setting in the material editor. this does make things rather inconvenient.

Indeed.
Unfortunately my last attempt with the material editor under VRay showed VRay discarded the light multiplier in the mateditor options, so i couldn't offer an alternative.Will have to try it again.
The good side of it is that with the script you do not need to work all the time at a fraction of 1 diffuse.
Work as you normally would.
At the end of your setup (basic one. mateditor is not going to help fine-tune materials under ANY lighting whatsoever, anyways),just multiply by your favourite coefficient (.255, .5, .75) with the script, and divide the ISOs of the camera by the same amount, and press render.
This, at least, is how i use it.