uneven jagegd rough edges

[fraggle]

Hello,
is there a solution to create easily uneven edges? Simply the one that are into the real word where nothing is perfect!!!
I've been trying the trick of VrayCompTex +vrayedge + Noise (as explain by http://www.peterguthrie.net/blog/tag/vraycomptex/), but the problem is that the bump is al overand not only on the edges.
Natural edges is a must for photorealistic scene, I wonder why it is soo difficult to get it inside straight away from the 3D soft/render engine.

Thanks

[bernhard]

welll.. depending on the model of coure... you should chamfer the edges.. but you can also try bump maps of course... which are layed out correctly so that only the edges are effected... procedural will be a bit difficult I guess... otherwise what you already mentioned should help as well.....

other nice thing would be using mudbox and bump all the major edges and use a normal map..
either its in the model, or u use maps... can't see anything else... good luck...

[joconnell]

As Bernhard said it's a tough one to do, someone's written a script to automate it - might be worth a look.

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/sc...deformed-edges

[fraggle]

Thanks,
yes I'have a look to this script but was expecting a trick from the pro. Seems there is simply none...

[joconnell]

Hmm - how come the edges texture is not working as it is in Peter's tutorial? If it's a problem with you having denser edges, an inverted normals vray dirt should do the same?

[windowlicker]

Do you have a reference photo of what you're trying to recreate?
And if you're having trouble with the tutorial and getting bump all over, something must be wrong with your texture setup.

If I'd try to accomplish a really realistic model with rough edges like that, I'd probably unwrap the model so that it is possible to use displacement to get the desired look. Unless it's a really complicated model, where you can't really do any maps by hand. The nice thing with Peter's tutorial is that you set the material up once, then you can use it for all models more or less.

[fraggle]

Well, I pick up some exagerated reference picture to illustrate the problem. Every object in real life have different edges variation link to their properties i.e. age, material type, way it has been produce or cut...

[joconnell]

Yep I'd agree with window above that there's something going weird with the way your edges tex is masking the object. I'd do some simple tests where you use the edges tex as a mask for straight colour first, so you know that it's giving you only the areas you want.

[fraggle]

Hmm - how come the edges texture is not working as it is in Peter's tutorial? If it's a problem with you having denser edges, an inverted normals vray dirt should do the same?

Will try to explain the problem...To deform edge you need a big amount of bump (like 30)but for the plane you need a very subtle amount (like 1, 2 or 3). Unfortunatly the main slider control both, noise bump inside the edge as wall as the bump of the surface! On top of that, the noise of the vrayedge spred all over the object and not only on the vrayedges!

[AJ Jefferies]

Looking at Peter's tutorial, you seem to have your comp operators the wrong way around. Your 'Map #7' should be AxB, 'Map #3' should be A+B. I can't be sure if this will fix the problem but it might be worth a look.

[joconnell]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12043[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12043[/ATTACH]

Will try to explain the problem...To deform edge you need a big amount of bump (like 30)but for the plane you need a very subtle amount (like 1, 2 or 3). Unfortunatly the main slider control both, noise bump inside the edge as wall as the bump of the surface! On top of that, the noise of the vrayedge spred all over the object and not only on the vrayedges!

Ah okay!

So for that, you could probably use another edges tex setting so that the edges are masked with a white colour value (255), and the plane section gets 10% of that (025) so you'll be able to get the strength difference you're looking for.

[windowlicker]

Looked at this some more, and the reference photos show very well what's going on and what you have to do.
In the case of the concrete, you have these little "bubbles" all over the material, so there's no real need to work explicitly with the edges. I made a render with a noise map for the displacement. Displacement is left at standard settings, and it has an amount of 2mm, and a shift of -2 (to keep the table from "swelling"). I used now a simple gradient (box mapping) to get a more pronounced effect around the edges, but there is still a bit of displacement going on all over the table. I think displacement will look substantially better. Bump mapping won't really cut it when you have big dents like in this case.
The benefit of using a noise map for the dents is that it's a 3D map, so no need to unwrap the object.



I thought I'd use VrayDirt (inverted) to use as a mask for the edges, but whenever I try to render with displacement and the dirtmap as a mask, I get an immediate crash. Can someone else try this and see if it works?

[fraggle]

Thanks,
the map7 is A*B and map 3 A+B, error is on the hand writing.
Could be a bug, I will reset the scene...yes it works now after restarting max.

[fraggle]

Thanks,
the map7 is A*B and map 3 A+B, error is on the hand writing.
Could be a bug, I will reset the scene...yes it works now after restarting max.

After several attemp, it works more or less, seems to be unpredictable on max 2013. Cannot find out what/when, but the same scene may render completly differently.

[joconnell]

A lot of the time for this type of thing I'll render out an extra tex pass with each of the different maps building up the material separately so I can get a better idea of what each map is contributing - might be a help.