VrayMultiSubTex not passing on alpha channels

[trixian]

As far as I can see, the map kills any alpha channel used in the input nodes.
I'm specifically using 3 ai files with their embedded alpha/transparency (the empty bg canvas in illustrator). This works fine plugging each directly in to a material.
Any ideas?

[tashko.zashev]

Hi Christian,

Please check this topic :
http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...orrection-node

[trixian]

Ah. Lazy me didn't search for any related threads.

I would hope this "bug fix" will find it's way to the pre 3.x version too, as this is a bug fix and not a new feature?
Would this fix be present in any of those nightly builds I never have requested?

[tashko.zashev]

I would hope this "bug fix" will find it's way to the pre 3.x version too, as this is a bug fix and not a new feature?

I see that it is added as a new feature/option request in our system.

Would this fix be present in any of those nightly builds I never have requested?

I think it's possible to port it to the nightly builds, but this needs to be confirmed by our developers. I will update the thread if any information is available.

[trixian]

So, am I the only one that thinks that adding support for alpha channels in an existing but limited map type, should be considered a bug fix and not a "new feature"?
I'll attribute this one to "internal bureaucracy mix-up" as I assume Chaos, and specifically Vlado are above this type of mentality.

[tashko.zashev]

Hi Christian,

So, am I the only one that thinks that adding support for alpha channels in an existing but limited map type, should be considered a bug fix and not a "new feature"?
I'll attribute this one to "internal bureaucracy mix-up" as I assume Chaos, and specifically Vlado are above this type of mentality.

It is very specific case i think, actually it could be considered as a bug, limitation, request e.t.c. We prefer to add such of issues as a feature request, because it requires new option to be implemented.
However, I have a feedback from the developers that they will try to make the necessary changes to the 2.x nightly builds. As soon as i have any update will post here.

We apologise for any inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

[vlado]

So, am I the only one that thinks that adding support for alpha channels in an existing but limited map type, should be considered a bug fix and not a "new feature"?

It's not a bug; the original texture is not broken - it works precisely in the way that we want it to. You want it to also have an option for a different behavior (because we still want to preserve the old one, which can be useful sometimes). So in this specific case, as Tashko pointed out, it's a feature request.

Best regards,
Vlado

[trixian]

Right, ok, I get what you are saying.
My question would be, why would you want it to be this way? In what way does this benefit anyone else but you? You already added this to the 3.x version, so it obviously wasn't exactly the way you wanted it in it's current condition. This seems like a rather defensive stance on your part.

Can we then just avoid these irritating issues in the future, where by you guys add all logical features into things like this, so we don't get confused as to why you deliberately left out a given feature, or at least explicitly inform us as to the "by design" shortcomings for each release?
Ie. VRay v.3.xx.xx:

• Added "VRayNewRenderFunction": Lets you do blah blah blah. This feature has no colour output, as we like it this way, but may add colour in a future update.
• etc.

[vlado]

My question would be, why would you want it to be this way?

It blends between the texture and the respective color based on the alpha of the texture, similar to how most of the other materials/maps in 3ds Max work whenever a parameter is controlled by both a color and a texture map.

Best regards,
Vlado

[trixian]

I was under the impression the standard way one blended textures to underlying materials or maps was by using the percentage spinner in materials\maps.
Pretty sure this is the preferred way by most people.
You even included them in the VRayMuiltiSubTex for each slot.

I get that you seemingly want to blend the texture to the colour selection, which the spinner does at the moment but I fail to see how this would be preferred to the standard way of letting the alpha mask the whole slot onto the base/default slot and or even the underlying material.
We already have tons of tools to tint our maps, so what makes your "built in" way superior to the normal way of doing stuff.
From earlier threads/ideas you seem to be of the opinion that it is better to add functionality through separate nodes that the user can controll, yet here you claim having this integrated system is the preferred way.
I find this mildly confusing.
At what point during development did your user base request this behaviour contrary to the normal and, as I see it, logical way of letting embedded alpha channels behave like in every other instance of Max's materials/maps?

[trixian]

Listen!

At some point, preferably after the main kinks are ironed out, I will be making the switch to v.3.x, but at the moment I'm stuck on the current v.2.x releases.
I'm just arguing this point as I am finding Chaos's attitude and rationale flawed as of lately.

I get that you guys need/want to increase your revenue, but this is not the right way of weaning your current user base off 2.x onto 3.x
You come off as petty and slightly disingenuous. Whats wrong with just slightly upping the price up front if you need to, and avoid playing silly semantics games with us about tiny (tiny for you as a company, not for me on a deadline) issues like this.

From earlier interaction with you guys, I find this rather surprising. You used to be one of the few good guys left in the market that expressed genuine enthusiasm and passion about what you did.
Lately, I'm not getting that vibe from you.
What happened?

[vlado]

This is already in the 2.x nighly builds and it will go into the next official update. What else would you have us do!?

Best regards,
Vlado

[trixian]

All I would have you do, is exactly what you just did.
Minus the whole "its not a bug, its a feature" thing.

I am very glad you decided to add it, and hopefully not because you felt you needed to so the douche on the forum would shut his trap, but that I might have made a point, and my reasoning was (close to) sound.
I also think you (Chaos) might want to poll the forum every now and then to gauge peoples wishes and wants when designing these things. You have before, but not on this issue I think, and not for a long time.

It also seems I am completely alone on this stance (since not one other person has chimed in), so sorry if I came on too strong and offended anyone.