Vray normal map problems

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Hi guys,

Iam having difficulties using vray normal map.
SInce in max 2017 its the only option to apply normal map when using vray, there is no other way than use vray normal map.

BUT

Setting up the right value befor things start to work very unexpectedly is very hard and i personally have beeen figthing it eversince this option in vray has been released. PErhaps i am doing somethign wrong, perhaps its a bug i dont know.

Ia m creating my normal maps in the latest photoshop which has quite neat option in the filter menu and produces very nice normal maps with the right gamma value.
However if i bring these to vray, they dont work well with the setting i use.

I have the max normal map set to 100 and i am setting the normal map multiplier to 2. What i get is a nice normal map but it looks like its smoothing my object quite badly. So i am rendering cladding flat planks but it looks like I am rendering logs it just seems so round.

I am rendering the sample overnight so i will post in the morning.

Another issue i get is when i drop the normal maps to floor generator and let it flip the maps to create some randomness....then...the normal maps are just completely whacked and make my claddign render in different colors. When i dont let the floor generator mirror the maps and flip them around, it renders well...however the smoothing persists and it happens on non floor generator objects.

Bump mapping alone doesnt cut it so i am stuck atm.

How do you guys set up your vray normal maps? What do you use to generate them and how do you overcome the flipping problem in floor generator? Sure someone uses normal maps for brushed old floors and other materials.

Also ...is it necesarry like in maxes normal map to flip the green?

CHeers!
Will post the samples in the morning.

Regards
MArtin

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

here is the normal map sample and the render i am getting when renderign with above mentioned setting and with unchecking all the flipping and mirroring in floor generator


As you can see there is a very apparent smoothing going on on the planks and i need them to appear flat.
all the smoothing groups are at 0, there is no smoothing whatsoever

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Here are the settings

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Sorry for so many posts...this is the last sample of a situation when using the floor generator with the flipping options on

[dlparisi]

In the last example with the floor generator I don't think you can't flip the UV's. This will mess up the rgb compnents of the normal map since it's it's expecting each rgb value to correspond to a certain normal direction. I'm not quite sure why it gives the results it does though - I'd expect it to be inverted rather than completely different. Rather than a regular normal map what about using a regular Bump map piped through a Vray Bump to Normal map and then that into VRayNormalMap. I would think this would correct for any flipped rgb irregularities.

[Ihno]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32829[/ATTACH]
Here are the settings

Looks like you haven't set gamma override to 1.0 in the browse file dialogue of the bitmap notes.
Normal maps should appeare brighter.

If that dosn't help, your normalmaps propably are in wrong gamma space.
Also you should use the Color2Bump Map before piping the diffuse into the bump slot.

You can't rotate or mirror normal maps, just in case you did
Rotating mirroring of uv's instead of the map itself should be working fine...

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Thanks for the pointers guys,
so here is what i did...since multitexture doesnt support the gamma override when inserting the files, i used vrays multisub map nad manually set the gamma to 1 - this worked.

Still unsure about flipping the grenn though as this is suggested in many tutorials but that concerned only the standard normal map...so ..does this concern the vray normal map too?.

I used the function of the floor generator to rotate the flip UVs...and it did the stuff above.
When i rotate / flip the boards manually, it works fine.

I dont get it though

Anyway..it will work fine just need to spend more time manually fliping the geometry around and spread the ID better than floor generator does.

[Ihno]

Still unsure about flipping the grenn though as this is suggested in many tutorials but that concerned only the standard normal map...so ..does this concern the vray normal map too?.

I think that options are just for giving some more control like inverting the effect. Imo you don't need them usally if you have a proper normal map.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

thant brings up the question what is a proper normal map.
I create mine in the latest PS and they appear properly to me but are the correct? no idea

if i dont flip the green the map has a positive instead of negative effect....in other words...things that should create the dents are appearing to be positive

[Ihno]

if i dont flip the green the map has a positive instead of negative effect....in other words...things that should create the dents are appearing to be positive

So, your normal map isn't proper I think.
How do you generate it? Are you using the nvidea, xnormal or filterforge plugin?
Nvidea has many, many options and you can do much wrong with it. Xnormal is easier to use.
I'd suggest to test, draw a simple black and white image in ps, convert it to normal map and take a look at it in max.
Play around with the settings of your ps plugin till it looks as expected without using the flip/swamp options.
But, if you use ps to convert your bump or diff to norm... Why dont you use the bump to normal map of vray instead? Don't think it makes a difference.
Apart from some milliseconds more rendertime.

Something I am wondering about is: Would it be the right way to first use color2bump and than bump to normal?

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

thats what i thought and tried to use
color2bump and bump2normal...doesnt work at all

problem is that my diffuse and bump is quite detailed and i need my normal map to be somewhat less detailed and i am gettgin nice effect from normal map.
I wil have to elaborate more on monday i guess
Thanks y lot for you input though!!!
I will post the result on monday