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Dome light with ground projection: Environment above horizon is incorrectly scaled

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  • Dome light with ground projection: Environment above horizon is incorrectly scaled

    I have a problem with V-Ray HDRI in ground projection mode, placed inside a dome light: Changing the radius parameter has no effect on the parts above the horizon line. It only has an effect on the ground surface.

    Please take a look at the three images. Don't laugh at the teapot, it is real-world car size, as indicated by the wheels. The goal is to show a car parked next to a sidewalk in a city. There is an infinite V-Ray Plane below the car, set to shadow catcher via the button in the V-Ray toolbar. The HDRI in the domelight is instanced to the background slot in the Environment Tab from Max.

    By default, the part below is projected way too big, as shown by the big patch of asphalt below the car. Also, the window front behind the car is way too big. So far, so good.

    Click image for larger version

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    Now, let's change the radius parameter for the ground reflection. The ground below the car is actually looking very good judging by the street and asphalt, but everything above the horizon line is not scaled accordingly. The background above the horizon is still twice as big as it should be. I can't understand the reason for this, as it brings up a number of problems. First, the reflections in the car would be wrong, and second there is a severe distortion from the ground towards the background. Because it has to blend from the correctly scaled ground to the incorrectly scaled background.

    Click image for larger version

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    Here is a screenshot of the HDRI for better understanding:

    Click image for larger version

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    Is there a way this can be fixed? Is it a bug at all? Basically I want to tell V-Ray how "big" the environment from a HDRI is that I put in the scene. If you need the scene, please tell me.

    Max 2017, V-Ray 3.60.03
    https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

  • #2
    judging from the screenshot the distance from tripod to the kerb is about a width of a car so 3d camera is too far from the model to look natural. zoom in so you get 3/4 of a car in the frame and it will look better.
    Marcin Piotrowski
    youtube

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    • #3
      The background of the horizon stays at an unrealistic (fixed) size, no matter where I place the camera, also regardless of the focal length. Take a look at the image, I changed the camera and the environment stays the same. First is the most logic one, second and third are zoomed in and out. Notice the background is still unrealisticly scaled, it is the same on all three images, even on per-pixel-level.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	ground_05.JPG Views:	1 Size:	181.1 KB ID:	965136

      Click image for larger version  Name:	ground_06.JPG Views:	1 Size:	241.0 KB ID:	965138

      Click image for larger version  Name:	ground_07.JPG Views:	1 Size:	150.9 KB ID:	965137


      Actually, I found out that the competition handles this correctly: https://youtu.be/rJbImwgghZc?t=1m9s

      Their radius paramater scales the background as well, as intended. Notice what happens when he is zooming in and out. The background scales accordingly.
      https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

      Comment


      • #4
        quick check in vray 3.60.03 in max 2015. everything works fine on my side.
        Marcin Piotrowski
        youtube

        Comment


        • #5
          the camera should probably be no more than 2m from the car. ground projection option has its limits.
          Marcin Piotrowski
          youtube

          Comment


          • #6
            Does the environment above the horizon scale correctly? I doubt it...
            Also, I am not able to zoom in this close, because I need to show the car in its full size. It is not the background that I am after, but more about the reflections on the car. Because they are way too big. All that reflects is basically a shop window, where in reality I should see other stuff as well. I have reference images from a stand in car and would love to show the rendered one for comparison, but I am not allowed to. Reflections are way different, even though the HDRI is taken at exactly the same spot where the stand in car was.
            Last edited by kosso_olli; 24-08-2017, 01:14 PM.
            https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I hate to admit it, but I just installed the trial version of that other renderer, because I had to know how it works there...
              As piotruss3333 said, ground projection has it's limits, but only in V-Ray it seems. The result from the test on the other side of the fence was very good, the reflections on the car are MUCH closer to the reference image of the standin car. Mostly because I am able control the size of the shop windows and stuff using the radius paramter.
              If there is something similar in V-Ray that I am missing, I would really like to know!
              https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

              Comment


              • #8
                if it is reflection you are after and hdri was taken from the spot the car was parked in than I guess you should map it to a sphere/dome around the car. in tight environements this offset between object and camera is more noticeable.
                but than it's interesting that another engine is more capable here.
                Marcin Piotrowski
                youtube

                Comment


                • #9
                  It would be nice if someone from Chaosgroup could tell if this is something that could be fixed in the future.
                  https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would love to show some more image to better make the point, but I can't.
                    The fact that Chaosgroup stays silent drives me mad. Something I never had before here on the forums.
                    https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would be very interested to have some input from Chaosgroup as I use these kind of HDRI setups frequently for vehicle renders.
                      Regards

                      Steve

                      My Portfolio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The V-Ray ground projection does not scale the background; the upper hemisphere is not influenced by the radius by design.

                        Best regards,
                        Vlado

                        ​​
                        I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, is this something that could be improved? What was the intended purpose, if not this?
                          If you need anyone testing this, I would do it without doubt.

                          Regards

                          Oliver
                          https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry for bringing this up again, but does this statement here relate to the problems with ground projection in any way?

                            "...and we're already optimizing V-Ray's dome light with the help of the Render Legion team. And that's just the beginning."

                            If so, can I help somehow?
                            I mean, they already did it in quite a good way...
                            https://www.behance.net/Oliver_Kossatz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, the sampling is a different thing. But I've noted your request and we'll try to figure something out.

                              Best regards,
                              Vlado
                              I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

                              Comment

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