VFB 2 improvements

[Pixelcon]

I'm sorry to have to say it, but I think (among other things) the VFB 2 is in need of some attention. It's very unintuitive and the documentation doesn't help.

For example. How the hell do I create a folder to put a set of CC layers in (above the effects layers)? The option is greyed out and I cannot find an explanation in the documentation. I've done it before but I cannot work out how on earth to do it again... Why can I not just right click > add folder??
If I'm in Composite mode, wouldn't it be more intuitive to allow me to add multiple layers automatically to a folder when I click + > folder with multiple layers selected (ala photoshop) As it stands now with several layers selected, the dropdown + menu just disappears immediately...
If I'm in Composite mode, wouldn't it be more intuitive to drag a mask from one layer to swap or alt + drag to overwrite a mask on another layer (ala photoshop)?
If I'm in Composite mode, wouldn't it be more intuitive to allow to drag and drop or right click > copy a mask name (next to 'properties') and paste it to another layer?

The curves editor is on crack. If I accidentally move a point outside the grid, it's seemingly gone for good? Why does it assume when I click my mouse vertically above a point, it wants me to instantly teleport that point to my mouse position? All undoable of course, just veryyyyyy frustrating...
Can we get some more options for backgrounds? Rotation? Skew? Scale?
Can we get an option to append certain layers from a saved preset instead of just wiping the current stack all together?
Perhaps some colour coding wouldn't be a bad idea for helping one understand which parts of the stack can be moved or have adjustments applied to them?

I feel like there's nobody asking the question 'is this intuitive' before certain things are implemented/changed in vray... I have to say that's one thing that I really like about Corona is it just feels 'intuitive' and that's something that is perhaps missing in Vray in certain aspects.
Maybe it's hard for the devs who design these aspects to see how 'n00bs' end up struggling with what seemed like an awesome design choice at the time, in which case I would be glad to give some feedback to a dev that is happy to hear it, as I think 'real user feedback' is pretty invaluable.

Not hating, just trying to give some honest feedback!

[Vizioen]

The curves editor is on crack.

Hahaha, that one made me chuckle. Agree with all of the above remarks as well.

[Pixelcon]

Perhaps unsurprisingly no response from Chaos.

In any case, how on earth do I add a folder into the stack of correction layers? Why is it greyed out? I know it's possible... The lack of feedback or help or guidance from the the tools in this regard is...frustrating.

[Vizioen]

Folders can only be created under the Source:composite thingy.

don't understand the thought process behind this either. The layers needs some more love as well. For instance: If I want to move multiple correction layers to a folder for example I need to drag them one by one. It doesn't work with multiple layers selected.

[Pixelcon]

Folders can only be created under the Source:composite thingy.

don't understand the thought process behind this either. The layers needs some more love as well. For instance: If I want to move multiple correction layers to a folder for example I need to drag them one by one. It doesn't work with multiple layers selected.

Yeah it freaks out for me with multiple layers selected also.

[dimitar_panayotov]

Hi, could you please tell us more about the Color coding idea? How do you see yourself using it? Do you want every type of layer to have its own color code? For instance: Render element layer with red, Post effects layer with green, etc.
What do you mean by: "parts of the stack can be moved or have adjustments applied to them"? Do you mean "adjustments" like a linked Post effects layer to a Render element?
So if you could explain this idea in more detail it would be great. We appreciate your feedback.

[Vizioen]

I wanted to create a new thread but I remembered there was already a thread about improvements. The VFB needs some more love, I almost don't do any postproduction in photoshop anymore, but working in the VFB the whole time pointed me to some of its shortcomings.

- When using the pick tool, the middle mouse button shouldn't be able to add things to the list, I like to pan around my image when zoomed in to select certain objects. With the tool being active the middle mouse button adds the things that were clicked on.

- The remove (-) button requires a lot of the time second or third clicks (not consistent) to remove items, these buttons could also be a bit bigger

- It would be nice if the handles for the sliders could be a little bit bigger, not sure if it's because of my 4K screen, but they are quite small, I end up clicking a couple of times before I'm able to drag them.

- As James already said: copying or dragging masks to other layers would be very nice

- Also appending layers from a file or different render instead of replacing

- Selecting and moving multiple layers is a must

- Dragging a VRIMG to the buffer window to open it is also handy

- I have a basic folder to edit foliage with some extra folders (for instance: leafs, bark, flowers) with an exposure and hue/saturation in each of them. The main folder is masked with a cryptomatte for objects. And the subfolders with cryptomatte for materials, that way I can quickly edit a specific tree or plant. I hide this folder in my stack, so I can duplicate it. The problem is if there's not a material in the cryptomatte, the whole folder blacks out the entire render, so I can't select a material. I can't hide the folder because then I can't edit anything. So I need to place it at the bottom, edit the mask so it doesn't black out my entire render only then I can move it where it needs to be. I can't rename a hidden folder or layer either.

I'll add more over time, but these were the first ones on my list.

[Pixelcon]

Hi, could you please tell us more about the Color coding idea? How do you see yourself using it? Do you want every type of layer to have its own color code? For instance: Render element layer with red, Post effects layer with green, etc.
What do you mean by: "parts of the stack can be moved or have adjustments applied to them"? Do you mean "adjustments" like a linked Post effects layer to a Render element?
So if you could explain this idea in more detail it would be great. We appreciate your feedback.

Hi Dimitar,

Sorry, I had no idea this was meant for me. Apologies for the slow reply!

re: color coding, it could be a simple transition like this, or reversed to differentiate what is affectable and what is not.
Your suggestion about color coding the different types of layers is also compelling. perhaps the user should have the control do decide? I could imagine the user being able to match their color-coding across different softwares would be very handy.

Do you mean "adjustments" like a linked Post effects layer to a Render element?

Yes, that is what I mean.

So in the layer stack exists the Source layer and the post-effects layers above (denoiser, Sharpen/blur and lens effects). These cannot be moved up or down in the layer stack. They are, and always will be, fixed in those positions (to my knowledge). What I was trying to suggest was, like above in the visual expample, that there is some way of differentiating between layers that cannot be moved (source/denoiser/sharpen blur/Lens Effects), and those which can be moved. This isn't going to change the world, but I think it's somewhat representative of how the UX/UI is lacking. IMO I should have some type of visual cue that differentiates these layers from all the others, then I can (in theory) immediately understand why they're color-coded or shaded differently and never be confused about it again.

[dimitar_panayotov]

Thank you both for the suggestions!

Pixelcon, we will take into consideration your advice.

I have a basic folder to edit foliage with some extra folders (for instance: leafs, bark, flowers) with an exposure and hue/saturation in each of them. The main folder is masked with a cryptomatte for objects. And the subfolders with cryptomatte for materials, that way I can quickly edit a specific tree or plant. I hide this folder in my stack, so I can duplicate it. The problem is if there's not a material in the cryptomatte, the whole folder blacks out the entire render, so I can't select a material. I can't hide the folder because then I can't edit anything. So I need to place it at the bottom, edit the mask so it doesn't black out my entire render only then I can move it where it needs to be. I can't rename a hidden folder or layer either.

Vizioen, are you using "Show preview when selected"? Can you show a short video of the described method?

[Vizioen]

Here you go. The project is small because it's NDA, but you can see the screen turning black so that's what the problem is basically.

t also does something weird of showing the preview from the Material cryptomatte mask in that top layer where the Object Cryptomatte is, without it being enabled.

[dimitar_panayotov]

Thank you for sharing! There is another checkbox called "Show mask' preview". You could try different combinations with this option to see if you could avoid the problem you have. Please check the video and let me know if this could help.

[Vizioen]

Thank you for sharing! There is another checkbox called "Show mask' preview". You could try different combinations with this option to see if you could avoid the problem you have. Please check the video and let me know if this could help.

Thanks I've never seen that checkbox (facepalm), will see if that fixes this issue. Thanks.