VRay SP3 - Materials

[Morne]

Hi all

AGAIN will ask for this. This has been on the "to do" list since I started using VRay. Can we please finally get something as part of the installation? Either some kind of presets or a library.
If all else fails, can we please get HIGH RES versions for the vismats that's already available as low res in the download section?
(...but a library will be better I think)

OK that's it, last time I'm asking, promise :- )

[WilleViz]

Yes, please!

The lack of this was my biggest block to get a fast start coming from MODO which ships with a set of materials that is soo easy to just drag and drop. A number of them - especially metals - are pretty darn good in 901.

I have bought SIGERSHADERS V-Ray Material Presets Pro | Max to get a nice starting material library, but I think for new users it would be great to have a good standard material set with the installation.

[RotemS]

If this is accepted, please make this optional and off by default.

[WilleViz]

If this is accepted, please make this optional and off by default.

Yes, it would probably be best if it was a separate download and installation file. In MODO it is a separate Content download for instance.

[jacksc02]

I think there are enough material resources around for this not to be included.
Would you rather have faster/cleaner renders? or a couple of included basic materials?

[Art48]

The thing is with the recent move to simplify and clarify the UI, workflow etc for beginners and to allow easier access, this would be a good idea. ALthough I wouldn't use it.

[Morne]

I would use it all the time as a base for any custom material.
For example you could choose "porceline tile" with a matte or glossy finnish, then you just change the diffuse colour or add the texture as needed.
Same thing for marble, all the transulency etc will already be done, you just change the colour or slot in your desired texture
Concrete etc

Just think of it, reflection, refraction IOR etc all already done, you just tweak the base to get the color you're after.

Yes that's why you built up a library over the past couple of years. Well what if your library is filled with stuff created by 20 different people, each person with his own idea of "correct". What if your library was initially setup WITHOUT a gamma corrected workflow in mind? etc etc.

I can't see how you guys won't use it.

[Moriah]

Maybe chaosgroup could partner with someone like grant warwick to do a really good mat library? :P

[Morne]

Maybe chaosgroup could partner with someone like grant warwick to do a really good mat library? :P

I gave up on his stuff because it was stretched out over too long and the typical workflow changed like 10 times during that time. I haven't checked out his latest stuff from the lighting training yet.
Hmm actually I haven't checked his old stuff with the new SP3 beta yet. Will look into it when I get some spare time

[joconnell]

What I'd be inclined to do in the mean time is get yourself a camera that shoots raw and a color checker passport. Have a look at this video https://vimeo.com/107961975 so you're getting the brightness values of your textures correct for starters and you'll be quite a bit ahead. Grant's wee trick of putting an illuminated screen like your phone beside the object and photographing it at a few angles to see how the reflection strength changes is well worth it too - that's what ikea have done for a long time.

I'd say this could be something we could gradually organize ourselves. Knowing the correct brightness for every material is a pretty tall ask but we could do something like have "a" concrete, "a" brick, "a" wood and so on, just to get ourselves a good starting ballpark. In that regard I'm interested in quixels megascans library for when it's released, if only to have textures with realistic brightness value as a starting reference point for myself.

[^Lele^]

The thing is with the recent move to simplify and clarify the UI, workflow etc for beginners and to allow easier access, this would be a good idea. ALthough I wouldn't use it.

There, that is, i believe, the crux.
Look-development is an art form with some seriously strict technical constraints.
If *I* was to prepare a library of shaders which worked under LWF, many users wouldn't be able to use them because their colormapping and lighting is off what the shader expects.
So the user WILL have to change the shader to match the conditions it's being used into, getting back much to square one (no, if a shader has a specific reflection amount, one isn't supposed to change it. Nor is one supposed to CC a calibrated diffuse map, for instance.).
The issue there is double-faced: a) it would mean that the shader library would have to be supported against all and any lighting workflows people decide to (sometimes improperly) use. (this is nigh impossible, by the way.) B) when the novelty subsided, people'd stop using the library on a daily basis (hands up who works with a shader library without ever editing a thing.), making the considerable effort in production and support of the library quite the ghost chase.

If you people are dying to get ready-made, high quality shaders, why not look into the Chaos Scanned Materials (hint: vray 3 help docs...)?
Those, for instance, would work correctly ONLY under LWF conditions, and any oddity in the shader look is GUARANTEED to be on the side of the lighting and color mapping.
And they can hardly be edited in ways which would change their character.
I was more than half-way through a conversion of the MERL scanned shaders (through proper BRDF recreation), but again the issue there is that as the user changes anything ever so slightly, the shader isn't what was supposed to be anymore, and results can and will vary wildly.

[kosso_olli]

Maybe chaosgroup could partner with someone like grant warwick to do a really good mat library? :P

Haha, better not. It would take ages for him to create that, and we would have to wait ages for the renderings. His stuff is incredibly slow.

[Morne]

I like the idea of working "correctly". So if Lele's materials are correct and my image looks off, at least i'd know to check out the lighting for example. The point is, the other engines HAVE presets AND/OR libraries. I don't see why ChaosGroup can't at least implement "something"

Even if it is something simple (but more "correct") like for example these presets from mental ray's arch & design material:

[^Lele^]

*My* qualms with it are effective usage versus effort.
If i jumped off a cliff every time i saw someone do it, i wouldn't be talking to you now.
This said, if i'll get tasked with preparing one, i'll do it, of course.
I don't get to choose, i get to yap. :P

[^Lele^]

I like the idea of working "correctly". So if Lele's materials are correct and my image looks off, at least i'd know to check out the lighting for example.

Not so, if a human prepared the shader from principled BRDFs (i wish i had that power. but i don't.).
There's way too much freedom to get things wrong in way too many situations for principled material libraries to work properly.
SCANNED materials, well, those are a whole different ballgame.