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Vray Hair shader request !

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  • Vray Hair shader request !

    Hi Vlado,

    Here's something I wish Vray hair shader has for a while ... and I think no hair shader currently has this .. but I did not tried all renderer out there ^^ but from what I can see, I never seen that effect yet in renders... and it's a BIG missing think, that make hairs look so CG right now.. there is 2 thing in my request that would tremendously help to sell the realism more.

    First, and the big one, is a second reflection, just after the highlight, but not any kind of reflection, his behavior is special, I joined an image to explain how it need to react to light etc. I also joined images of real life phenomena so you can see well what I mean.


    The other one, is having a sort of bump function on the hair itself, specially for the reflection, to create some breakdown that we can adjust ! Also, Vray render the hairs has 2d planes .. from a distance it can work , but for close up shot it shows a LOT .. and often the reflection look really odd on the hairs, because they are place, so reflection is all the width of the hair, instead to be just at the tip of the rondness of the hairs.. don't pretend it don't show, it show's a lot actually , so is there a way so you can cheat the reflection to act like it was on a cylinder instead of a plane ( if making them render as cylinder is too expensive ) ? I know Arnold, Alhair has a function for rendering it as 2d plane or cylinder, I don't know if it consume much more ram on cylinder, I never tried it.

    Tell me if you can add at least the first one, it would make the hairs MUCH MUCH more realistic!

    Thank you Vlado !Click image for larger version

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    and BTW, on the drawing, the curved hairs with the light position is a distorted perspective , showing a curly hair , how the reflection would look on it dependantly of the light placement, I don't know if it's clear, if not ask me will try to explain it differently.

  • #2
    Vlado said in the alsurface thread that he is working on alhair...so we will see what that brings
    Dmitry Vinnik
    Silhouette Images Inc.
    ShowReel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

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    • #3
      i dont think alhair as tgis if i remember well .

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      • #4
        Just checked the doc file, it has that second reflection layer But, I don't know if it behave like I explained it, I think in the Alhair it's just a wider reflection then the white. We will see, but for best result, it should behave like I explained. on a curved hair, if the light is not prefectly in the middle of theazymut of the hair , that reflection layer should only be visible on one side of the hair at a time, to see it on both side of the primary reflection, you need to have a light that is perfectly in front of hair...

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        • #5
          ist that second spec the result of the light traveling back..? the TRT.?

          Secondar Specular: TRT is for "transmit", "reflect", and "transmit" where light transmits through the hair surface, then it reflects from within the hair surface and transmits to the front of the hair surface. This is the secondary colored specular.
          https://renderman.pixar.com/resource...chnerHair.html

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          • #6
            yeah look's like . That hair shader seem to be super nice, let's wai and see the Alhair how it look's

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            • #7
              I don't think the Vray shader has Cone angle and eccentricity parameters exposed but apparently those parameters are complicated to explain to artists and don't make much difference. It may be a good idea to expose them in a beta for testing for artists to decide if the care.

              I also know of two top hair groom artists who use a number of tricks to get more control of the secular reflections of hair. Apparently they just cant get the look with only the default parameters.

              I even know of one artists who plugs the hair shader into a VRayBlend and has a VRayMtl with GGX reflections on top.

              I think there is a desire for more control over specular glint reflections and I would love to see hair rendered as a cylinder instead of a card as well as micro-bump detail. But not just any bump, it should be a procedural bump map based on what hair looks like under an electron microscope.

              I would love VRay to have Render time Hair subdivision. Lets say I have a strand of hair and its made of only 6 points. The render would look terrible because it looks like a jagged line. But with render time subdivision it would interpolate and render perfectly smooth, forming a smooth curve.

              Zoom into the hair or eyebrows of this mans face: http://www.robophot.com/portraits/andre/

              The hair is so obviously a cylinder and has a certain kind of bump . You can also see an exaggerated photo of a woman being front lit. She put a product in her hair to make it more shiny but it help illustrate the point.

              Click image for larger version

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              Last edited by stevejjd; 04-02-2017, 12:37 AM.

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              • #8
                I think there is a new Arnold Hair shader. Pleases mimic it exactly. Also mimic the passes too.

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                • #9
                  I don't think we'll do that, unfortunately. The same goes for the Arnold PBR material. Support for alSurface was possible only because it was open sourced.

                  Best regards,
                  Vlado
                  Last edited by vlado; 12-04-2017, 02:38 AM.
                  I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

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                  • #10
                    any news on the hairshader.?
                    https://linktr.ee/cg_oglu
                    Ryzen 5950, Geforce 3060, 128GB ram

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