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Specular Bleeding of Lens Flare Dispersion - SBLFD

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  • Specular Bleeding of Lens Flare Dispersion - SBLFD

    Hey everyone. I've been thinking about this effect for a while now. As most of the renders nowdays try to achieve photorealism and so on. And now that vray is getting closer and closer to release of 1.5 which should make it one of the most solid renders to date, I hope that after 1.5 release chaos will be doing addons to it like shaders and etc. So here is my personal request to add this in:
    Look below at the example of the effect Im looking for.




    So let me clarify, the areas specified in the circle is the flere i was talking about. I think and believe that effect like this adds nice touch of realizm to the picture. This example below shows how 3d doesnt:



    On the left is the correct highlite bleeding preception that happenes in the camera and the human eye, on the right is the usual spec highlite thats rendered by all software.
    Now how to reproduce this effect?
    well here is little something:

    "A camera lens has a number of elements that work together to focus an image onto film. The insides of lenses are coated with an anti-reflective material to help reduce the amount of secondary reflections known as ghost. In the case where bright lights are facing the lens, the lens coating is not fully effective and secondary reflections occur producing what are known as lens flares. Each part of the camera that light travels through before reaching the film may cause a secondary reflection which can show up as spots or banding. For this reason Zoom lenses with many focusing elements may have a complex looking flare, while prime lenses with only a few elements will result in simplistic looking flares. Lens flares in amateur photography are often thought of as mistakes, however many film directors integrate them purposefully for dramatic effect. Some factors that play a role in the look of a lens flare are discussed in the following pages.

    Number of lens aperture blades.
    The aperture controls how much light will enter the lens by adjustment of the "f-stop." Constricting or expanding a set of blades that form a circular shape adjust the f-stop.The area where two blades meet is more reflective and will cause a streak reflection across the film. A lens with 6 aperture blades as pictured below will produce 6 streaks. The streaks are focused on a point. This point becomes the center of the lens flare, and a ball with 12 spikes is formed. The aperture blades also control the shape of what I call reflection particles. The reflection particles are the result of light reflecting off of various parts of the lens inside of the camera. Because the light is first formed into a polygonal shape by the aperture blades the reflections will also be in the shape of the aperture blades. The reflection particles usually occur in a line that passes through the center of the lens and center of the light source."


    Here is more detailed about the camera/eye and the physical lense and flare
    http://www.pasadenaeye.com/faq/faq15/faq15_text.html
    http://jonathanclark.com/diary/flare/

    My idea on how to do this:
    I think it can be a combination of the shader and camera. The reason for this is that we not always want a huge flare or maybe we dont want it on a specific object. 3d offers a lot of control and control we need. So thats why combination of shader and camera are needed. In the shader such as vrayMtl can have a rollout which would be SBLFD - or whatever.
    In there there might be controls for the amount of flear bleed, streaks and so on. Then in the vray camera options this function can be set to enable or disable and it would correspond to the number of blades vray camera has and so on. Also the shader will play an essential role because it will give ability to do perpass render by turning everything else off.
    Also, I've noticed that some of the flare produces dispersion in the streaks so that can also be an option.

    So I think I've said it.

    Have fun and let me know what you think.
    Cheerz
    Dmitry Vinnik
    Silhouette Images Inc.
    ShowReel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

  • #2
    yes thats something that Ive always wanted out of the bag and not have to do post. BUT thats just the type of thing thats probably better DONE in post. Its a two edged sword.
    ____________________________________

    "Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it fu**ed you."

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    • #3
      percy it is and it isnt. The reason its done in post to date is because there is no other way. And also imagine the animation and camera move and the highlite travel over the model and etc that would be hard to reproduce in perspective and respecitvly to the model inpost...so thats one of the reasons...i think it would be nice to have as an option
      Dmitry Vinnik
      Silhouette Images Inc.
      ShowReel:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
      https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

      Comment


      • #4
        certainly wont hear an argument from me...
        ____________________________________

        "Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it fu**ed you."

        Comment


        • #5
          The simple solution, which is simply take all 255 white pixels and flare them fails an many occasions, e.g. in the both car-pictures, there are a lot more whit pixels than the ones really creating the flares.

          The most practical way for me would be a "over-bright pixels" mask or image-channel. Simply put a flare-filter (e.g. Trapcode Starglow) in post based on this mask and voila.

          Now this would be the most practical AND best way:
          Some compositing package capable of reading HDR (OpenEXR), taking my renderings and by simply flare all overbright-pixels you are done.
          Valentin

          ...forget Warp 9, engine-room please switch to Vray-speed...

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to second your wish this would be really nice to have in-renderer.
            Torgeir Holm | www.netronfilm.com

            Comment


            • #7
              actually you say that the reason its done in post is because its not possible. im certain that its extreamly easy to write a plugin to do it. however the reson its done in post be production houses is because everythings done in post for control. all the different elements are split so that changes could be made in post easily as opposed to rerendering.

              ---------------------------------------------------
              MSN addresses are not for newbies or warez users to contact the pros and bug them with
              stupid questions the forum can answer.

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              • #8
                right... its rather destructive to the render if you cant completely adjust it in post. or remove it if necessary. BUT, would be nice to have the option anyways.
                ____________________________________

                "Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it fu**ed you."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I had this wish too some time ago. I really would like Vray doing this automatically.
                  There are some reasons to do it as a post effect though. First of all you'd have to compute an actual camera in vray to get the effect via raytracing. This would get pretty slow and you might see grain due to insufficient samples. (you see Maxwell does it) Furthermore it should have no advantages over doing it in post. With a real HDRI and a good post bloom/glare Software you will get the effects much faster and in the same quality as raytraced.

                  What i'd like to see for Vray is a "Real Camera" Bundle. A VrayCam that simulates DOF, motion blur, and glare depending on real world camera properties. The glare/flare part could be an image effect plugin that reads out the HDR and Camera data from Vray and does the needed processing after the actual rendering. It would be cool if that would all happen in the VrayFrambuffer. (interactive controls)

                  Unfortunately the VrayFramebuffer evolves somewhat slow right now but the whole glare/glow thing is something would really like to see for 1.5+.
                  Sascha Geddert
                  www.geddart.de

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                  • #10
                    I agree this would be great to have. I always thought I saw it just cause of my bad eyes Glad it's not just me

                    imagine the animation and camera move and the highlite travel over the model and etc that would be hard to reproduce in perspective and respecitvly to the model inpost
                    I can imagine how hard this would be to recreate but couldn't a post effect work correctly if it referenced Overbight and Z-Depth all together?


                    --Jon

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                    • #11
                      Da elf i agree, but it could be an option in g-buffer to render this as a separete channel and comp it back in...Regarding the plug in..I dont think it will be that easy to write a plugin because it has to work with shader or it has to have special shader and it has to be fully compatable with vray and etc...no one will go to that extent unless paid for ofcourse
                      Dmitry Vinnik
                      Silhouette Images Inc.
                      ShowReel:
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
                      https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You can do this with DOF and some adjustment of the DOF Bias value.

                        Best reagrds,
                        Vlado
                        I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

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                        • #13
                          You can do this with DOF and some adjustment of the DOF Bias value.

                          Best reagrds,
                          Vlado
                          huh? can you post an example of this? This i gotta see...
                          ____________________________________

                          "Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it fu**ed you."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here are two examples, one uses DOF, and the other - a Blend AA filter with a large radius and small blend value. Both had the "Clamp output" option in the Color mapping rollout OFF (otherwise you can't get the nice bloom with the Blend filter).

                            Blend filter:


                            DOF with Center bias set to -10.0:


                            Of course, there are no radial streaks, but these can be computed in pretty much the same way (with an AA filter or suitable DOF sampler).

                            Best regards,
                            Vlado
                            I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Vlado, this is interesting however I think its a cheat...But non the less impressive result. My concern is that using blend filter might ogment things on the objects....and produce results you do not want.
                              DOF is defently interesting...I'll check it out.
                              Dmitry Vinnik
                              Silhouette Images Inc.
                              ShowReel:
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxSJlvSwAhA
                              https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitry-v...-identity-name

                              Comment

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