vray5 beta issues / notes

[index]

vray5 beta notes, version 50040 / 41, date 2020-10-26

INSTALLING
* what is "chaos_common/bin/setvrlservice" for (archive version)
there are no instructions, do we need to install it ?

CONVERSION
* conversion is only triggered, when the source is set to vray in the render settings
otherwise there is no dialog and the material editor shows an empty window on vray mats.
i had a file that doesn't trigger conversion even with vray set as renderer.

* material conversion (from old file) is not aware of layers,
all converted materials are on the none-layer
(might be the same for lights / cams, too)

* exposure after conversion
my test files are totally overexposed after conversion
(lights? camera? materials?)

* conversion of complex materials ?
i use vray advanced materials with vray grad ramp shaders to create realistic metals
(specular layer transparency with TexLayeredMax : AColor / TexGradRamp / AColor)
these materials do not get imported into in vray5, the layer shader setup is lost
(probably shaders not implemented, yet)

INSTANCES
* render instances / instances do not work (sometimes) ?
a converted huge file with loads of instances does not render them.
it seems like (render?) instances inside (render?) instances are not working.

ENVIRONMENT FOG
* environment fog
renders if disabled, it even renders if disabled and render mode is off .-)

* will it be possible to have the fog only within a certain geometry?
link it to a mesh?

IES LIGHTS
* couldnt make light shape work, should this work without ies file ?
it probably isn't something like a built in ies (as i i thought)
but it could be a feature to have some basic ies files built in/accessible

* is it planned to add an ies preview?

CAMERAS
* camera tag focus is not taken from / connected to the camera object
the focus of 3.7 cameras does not seem to get converted in vray5

* camera tag tilt value range too high ? it is is super sensitive
should be in % ?

* camera tag fov
is it needed, why not use the vaues from the camera object ?
if needed, please add the vertical fov, too
some software like solidworks use the vertival fov
what does the specify tick do? there is always a fov, not?

* it would be nice to have vfb settings added to the camera tag for certain features
like lens effects, denoiser, tonemap, etc, etc
not all cameras need the same settings,
and batch rendering needs per camera settings, because the vfb is not used.

* it would be possible to add rendersettings to the camera tag for certain features
like the camera type for example
that would make it unnecessary to have specific rendersettings for certain tasks

SUN / SKY
* the sun disk is not "cut off" by the horizon, is visibe below the horizon

BATCH RENDERING
* batch rendering seems to work with lens / glare
* batch rendering seems to support c4d save format and filename tokens
that is great, thank you very much !!!

MULTIPASS
* how to set up multipass?
still add "post effects" and "rgba image" ?
with "colormapping and gamma" the image is too bright, material id pass is ok
with "colormapping only" the image is ok, material id pass is too dark
(when checked in the c4d picture viewer)

CONSOLE OUT
* the logging settings in the preferences do not seem to affect the console.
maybe add a 2nd setting for the console ?
vray logging seems to happen in a dedicated channel, nice !

SHADERS
* there seem to be way less vray shaders, now !
gradramp? bulge? etc, all the stuff from the Power Shaders are missing
is this temporary?

* will there be an instance shader?

* there is not much info on shader use
i read it is fine to use the c4d bitmap shader ?
how about mixing c4d / vray shaders in c4d / vray layer shaders ?

* vray layer shaders are converted into a LegacyVrayShader
does it differ from a newly created VrayLayered shader ?

MATERIAL PREVIEW
* are we supposed to use the c4d material previews with vray5?
or will you add a few dedicated preview scenes?

WORKFLOW
* some workflow stuff is missing
like adding random material ids / colors
the vray clipper is missing

LIGHTS
* the light material has no intensity units...
i know, its depending on the object surface, but if possible
it would be nice to have the same unit settings like in the lights

* it seems like w/m/m/sr lights are not converted correctly ?
source file with misc sized rectangle lights, all with the same w/m/m/sr value
after converstion the w/m/m/sr value are different

MATERIALS
* there is no material override in the rendersettings
and no "overrideable" setting in the materials
i use that feature pretty often, i hope this is coming for vray5

* in the material the material id has to be enabled first ?
is that not an unneccessary extra step ?
in 3.7 the multipass settings defined which mat-ids were used

* crashed once when playing with car shader and flake setiings
(changed material values while rendering)

CONCLUSION
i must say all in all vray5 looks very positive and promising !
the new sun/sky looks fantastic
and finally a vray with full batch rendering support !
thanks to the team for all your work !

indexofrefraction

[YunalZobu]

ENVIRONMENT FOG
will it be possible to have the fog only within a certain geometry?

You just need to attach a geometry as a child to the fog object

[shaio]

Hi index
Thank you for the feedback. Here are some answers to your questions

INSTALLING
* what is "chaos_common/bin/setvrlservice" for (archive version)
there are no instructions, do we need to install it ?
indexofrefraction

Everything in the chaos_common folder is the same as you would have seen in C:\Program Files\Chaos Group\V-Ray for Cinema 4D RXX\ if you used the regular installation method. There is no need to install it since it is a standalone exe and can be run from everywhere.
The setvrlservice itself is used to set the license server from where V-Ray will get its license. If you use the regular installation this exe has a shortcut in the windows start menu located under Start > Programs > V-Ray for Cinema 4D > Change license settings. So if you use another computer as your license server you can set it by using this program and change it from localhost to something else. We're preparing a dedicated page for this but until then you can check the same page for 3Ds Max here since the tool is the same for all our products.

CONVERSION
* conversion is only triggered, when the source is set to vray in the render settings
otherwise there is no dialog and the material editor shows an empty window on vray mats.
i had a file that doesn't trigger conversion even with vray set as renderer.

This is known, and we're working on fixing it.

* material conversion (from old file) is not aware of layers,
all converted materials are on the none-layer
(might be the same for lights / cams, too)

It is in our to-do list.

* exposure after conversion
my test files are totally overexposed after conversion
(lights? camera? materials?)

This could be a result because of the above mentioned issue and they are not converted at all. The lights, cameras and the V-Ray Standard material are at least 90 % convertible. There are some obsolete settings that we've removed and exclude from conversion.

* conversion of complex materials ?
i use vray advanced materials with vray grad ramp shaders to create realistic metals
(specular layer transparency with TexLayeredMax : AColor / TexGradRamp / AColor)
these materials do not get imported into in vray5, the layer shader setup is lost
(probably shaders not implemented, yet)

Everything that is still not yet implemented will not be converted. We will add conversion as soon as we add the specific feature. TexLayeredMax is replaced by VRayLayered shader. We will be adding conversion for it too.

INSTANCES
* render instances / instances do not work (sometimes) ?
a converted huge file with loads of instances does not render them.
it seems like (render?) instances inside (render?) instances are not working.

The render instances are from Cinema 4D meaning that they're not converted by V-Ray and Cinema is taking care for them. If they don't render after importing a legacy scene then there might be something that V-Ray 5 still doesn't support or has issues with render instances. If you send me an example scene I can take a look at it and report it for fixing.

ENVIRONMENT FOG
* environment fog
renders if disabled, it even renders if disabled and render mode is off .-)

* will it be possible to have the fog only within a certain geometry?
link it to a mesh?

It is already reported for fixing that the environment fog is rendering even when it is disabled. It is in our to-do list for fixing.
As for rendering only certain geometry as Yunal suggested you gust need to make the geometry a child of the Environment Fog.

IES LIGHTS
* couldnt make light shape work, should this work without ies file ?
it probably isn't something like a built in ies (as i i thought)
but it could be a feature to have some basic ies files built in/accessible

* is it planned to add an ies preview?

We don't have plans for adding a preview for the IES Lights. The Content browser does better job for previewing such lights.
To make the Light shape work you need to have Soft Shadows enabled and set to Shadows or Shadows and Illumination mode.

MULTIPASS
* how to set up multipass?
still add "post effects" and "rgba image" ?
with "colormapping and gamma" the image is too bright, material id pass is ok
with "colormapping only" the image is ok, material id pass is too dark
(when checked in the c4d picture viewer)

You only need to add the Post effects and enable Multipass then assign filenames in the Save group inside Render Settings and render from the V-Ray or Cinema 4D render button.
For the issue with the MateriaID pass if you can possibly try it on a new scene where not a legacy and let me know if it still happens would be very helpful, We're doing our best to make V-Ray working without the need to change any gamma and color mapping settings for everything but there might still be cases that need fixing. If you can reproduce this on a clean scene made with V-Ray 5 please share it so we can check the issue. I'll do some tests on my end too.

CONSOLE OUT
* the logging settings in the preferences do not seem to affect the console.
maybe add a 2nd setting for the console ?
vray logging seems to happen in a dedicated channel, nice !

This is already fixed in the latest beta version in the nighties site. Make you update to the latest build to date.

SHADERS
* there seem to be way less vray shaders, now !
gradramp? bulge? etc, all the stuff from the Power Shaders are missing
is this temporary?

The Power Shaders (aka VRay plugins) are not coming back any time soon or at least not in their previous form. There were a lot of obsolete plugins that no one should use in any form to avoid compatibility issues and slowdowns. We're going to be adding some of them back, but they won't be in the form of a Power shader.

* will there be an instance shader?

If Cinema 4D doesn't provide a solution for this in the near future we will have to think of something since it's very uncomfortable having to copy all the shaders over and over again.

* there is not much info on shader use
i read it is fine to use the c4d bitmap shader ?
how about mixing c4d / vray shaders in c4d / vray layer shaders ?

It is fine to use the Cinema 4D bitmap shader for everything. As for the mixing it should be fine as long as the shaders that you're mixing are supported by V-Ray.

* vray layer shaders are converted into a LegacyVrayShader
does it differ from a newly created VrayLayered shader ?

They differ only in the User Interface

MATERIAL PREVIEW
* are we supposed to use the c4d material previews with vray5?
or will you add a few dedicated preview scenes?

The Cinema 4D previews are fully supported natively by V-Ray. We will be adding our own previews in the future but it is totally fine to use the Cinema 4D ones.

WORKFLOW
* some workflow stuff is missing
like adding random material ids / colors
the vray clipper is missing

A lot of features are still missing when compared to V-Ray 3.7. As you know V-Ray 5 is rewritten from scratch, and in time we will gradually be adding all the missing features back to V-Ray 5 while trying to keep balance between all the new goodies that Chaos is planing for V-Ray and keep up with the old essential features.

LIGHTS
* the light material has no intensity units...
i know, its depending on the object surface, but if possible
it would be nice to have the same unit settings like in the lights

There is a color multiplier and you can use as intensity.

* it seems like w/m/m/sr lights are not converted correctly ?
source file with misc sized rectangle lights, all with the same w/m/m/sr value
after converstion the w/m/m/sr value are different

This is expected and at the same time good to try and fix it. We've changed quite a lot the logic of how units are handled between V-Ray and Cinema 4D. Once more if possible sharing a simple scene would be very helpful and will save us time trying to reproduce the issue on our end.

MATERIALS
* there is no material override in the rendersettings
and no "overrideable" setting in the materials
i use that feature pretty often, i hope this is coming for vray5

This is ready and will be coming with the next beta update.

* in the material the material id has to be enabled first ?
is that not an unneccessary extra step ?

It is not. If you have it always enabled you will export those parameters and if it is not then they're not exported and you save some time during export (not much but you still save something). Another reason is that if you try to import the same scene in Max or Maya you will also import all the unnecessary information with it.

in 3.7 the multipass settings defined which mat-ids were used

This is known and we're working on it.

* crashed once when playing with car shader and flake setiings
(changed material values while rendering)

When you have a crash Cinema 4D saves debug information in a _BugReport.txt. Sending us this file when you crash could be very useful and might help us find the cause of the crash. Does it happen often?

CAMERAS
* camera tag focus is not taken from / connected to the camera object
the focus of 3.7 cameras does not seem to get converted in vray5

They're different type of data and that is why it doesn't work. Those are one of the few parameters left to link with the Cinema 4D camera parameters.

not all cameras need the same settings,
and batch rendering needs per camera settings, because the vfb is not used.

You can use the Cinema 4D Take system for that and overrite any parameter you want.

* camera tag tilt value range too high ? it is is super sensitive
should be in % ?

We need to tweak the step size for those. Adding the Automatic tilt and shift buttins is a WIP.

* camera tag fov
is it needed, why not use the vaues from the camera object ?
if needed, please add the vertical fov, too
some software like solidworks use the vertival fov
what does the specify tick do? there is always a fov, not?

We can add vertical fov support if our camera has such alterantive setting. Otherwise it would take time.
The "Specify FOV" tick enables V-Ray's own FOV parameter and ignores the one from Cinema 4D camera.

[index]

tx yunal and ivan,
two things to clarify maybe... if you have a null with some render instances inside and the null itself is then render instanced... nothing gets rendered at all. this works fine in 3.7.
also with exposure after conversion there is something wrong. either light or camera settings or both are not correctly converted.
if you have a 10x100cm with 100 w/m/m/sr and a 10x10000cm with 100 w/m/m/sr you end up with different intensities after conversion, i guess this is a bug.
i'm writing from holiday now, i cant do tests atm ... going to reply more in detail when i'm back
best, index

[YunalZobu]

Instancing works on my side, if I understood your setup correctly. Take a look at the attached image

[index]

sadly i have not much time for vray5, atm...
but i opened my test file with the nightly build from 20-11-24 and its still the same:
my instances are not rendered and all is totally over exposed.
there is still a lot of work to do ...

[shaio]

Hi index ,
If possible please share some of those scenes with me, so I can try them on my end and see what is going on. A simplified version of the scene will also work for me as far as the issue is reproducible in it. We've tried here on our scenes but everyone has different setups and fixing something that we can't reproduce ins't going to work.

Thank you.

[sirio76]

Hi index ,
If possible please share some of those scenes with me, so I can try them on my end and see what is going on. A simplified version of the scene will also work for me as far as the issue is reproducible in it. We've tried here on our scenes but everyone has different setups and fixing something that we can't reproduce ins't going to work.

Thank you.

Hi Ivan, during the alpha testing I’ve send you an email with a file where you can see the problem with instance and render instance. I’ve checked with the latest build and while the instances seems to work correctly, the render instances are still a mess for me. Unfortunately that’s an issue that prevents me to work with V5 since I use render instances a lot. If needed I can send another scene.
I really appreciate all the hard work and the great support from Chaosgroup, but some crucial features are still missing and while I tend to find workaround for unsupported stuff, some basic features should be rock solid before using V5 in production.
I hope you can fix that in the next update and I’ll be happy to send any scene regarding instances or other issues

[index]

hi ivan,

i'm still busy with projects, but i will test the release soon.
i try to make you test files if possible

best, index

[shaio]

Hi Ivan, during the alpha testing I’ve send you an email with a file where you can see the problem with instance and render instance. I’ve checked with the latest build and while the instances seems to work correctly, the render instances are still a mess for me. Unfortunately that’s an issue that prevents me to work with V5 since I use render instances a lot. If needed I can send another scene.
I really appreciate all the hard work and the great support from Chaosgroup, but some crucial features are still missing and while I tend to find workaround for unsupported stuff, some basic features should be rock solid before using V5 in production.
I hope you can fix that in the next update and I’ll be happy to send any scene regarding instances or other issues

I'll double-check this and see if I didn't miss something. Thank you for letting me know sirio76 .

[sirio76]

Thanks Ivan, please if you need other scenes let me know!

[shaio]

Thanks Ivan, please if you need other scenes let me know!

Thank you, I'll let you know if there is something else I need.

i'm still busy with projects, but i will test the release soon.
i try to make you test files if possible

best, index

index when you have a chance your example scene would also help us a lot because of the difference in workflows that everyone have it could turn out that you're experiencing a different issue with instances.

[index]

just found a super weird bug...
when i create a new camera through vray / cameras / physical camera i get just some object copied (?),
sometimes my activated camera gets copied even with my custom python tags.
sometimes not even a camera but a stage object i have in the scene.
(i would expect to get a fresh camera + tag with default settings)

also on import / conversion:
materials still loose their layers, comp-tags are completely ignored, and also material weight maps get lost
would it not be better to convert layer shaders to vray5 layer shaders and not to "legacy" layer shaders ?
the aColor and texGradRamp shaders i use get ignored (are not available in vray5)

this is all in the "final" release

ps. the texGradRamp is used for metals here and the aColor is needed because vrayforc4d does not like mixed c4d + vray shaders
but well... i guess i'm the only one doing such material setups... maybe i have to make my own pre-converter