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Is there a workaround for not having holdouts for volumes?

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  • Is there a workaround for not having holdouts for volumes?

    ​I know the headline is not very descriptive so I am trying my best to describe the problem / roadblock I am facing.
    I am currently tasked with creating a cloudscape which requires quite the few layers of volumes including thicker and thinner clouds as well as high density and low density fog.
    Since rendering all in one go is very impracticable for the clients comp team and makes it really difficult to fine tune the look.
    So I'd like to render at least some elements separately but the issue is where these elements would be intersecting with each other.
    Since Vray doesn't support holdouts for volumes I wonder if there any workaround available in houdini that would allow me to extract the different intersecting elements.
    Sadly deep compositing is not an option since the client is gonna use after effects.

    I attached a crude drawing of one example of what I mean.
    I have a couple of thick clouds mushes together and in the valley there is a another volume that simulates some thing fog.
    To add that fog in post I'd need to have the clouds cut off the fog volume on the side so it fits seamlessly together again.
    If it were a still this could just be easily masked out but this is gonna be animation so I want to avoid lots of manual rotoscoping.

    Click image for larger version

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    Another solution would be to port the scene over to Karma or Renderman but I honestly would like to avoid that.
    Cheers,
    Oliver

    https://www.artstation.com/mokiki

  • #2
    Hey Mokiki ,

    Cryptomatte works for volumes - would that do the trick for your comp artists? We find that people tend not to go with this because it's rarely supported in other rendering software, and assume V-Ray does not have volumetric cryptomattes either.

    Best regards!
    gosho.genchev@chaosgroup.com

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    • #3
      Hello Gosho,

      I was thinking about cryptomattes but at least from what I am used to with them those would mostly be beneficial for specific colorgrading of those elements.
      But what if they want to mask of some of the fog to lower the opacity whcih means what is underneath needs to be revealed more. And once I have multiple elements overlapping I don't think the cryptomatte would hold up.
      Cheers,
      Oliver

      https://www.artstation.com/mokiki

      Comment


      • #4
        I tried cryptomatte on my scene and it did not work.
        I just ended up with very bright white and black
        62007 stable

        I ended up having to make a custom pass to get a useful holdout matte out

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey Mokiki ,

          I am messaging to make sure you don't wait for a reply from us in limbo. We had an internal brainstorming session - sadly, we could not come up with a solution that would satisfy your needs in this case. For the future, we are very actively working on revamping the volumetric shading workflow in V-Ray but as of now, I have no solution.

          All the best!
          gosho.genchev@chaosgroup.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dubbie99 View Post
            I tried cryptomatte on my scene and it did not work.
            I just ended up with very bright white and black
            62007 stable

            I ended up having to make a custom pass to get a useful holdout matte out
            Interesting, it should just work, at least it does on my end. I'll get back to you tomorrow for more details if we fail to reproduce this.

            Best regards!
            gosho.genchev@chaosgroup.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Gosho.Genchev
              Hello Gosho. First of all thank you for getting back to me. I've been actively trying to find a suitable solution.
              Had a few attempts to move the scene to either renderman or karma and while they support what I need it's just very noticeable slower than rendering in Vray. So you guys did a great job in that regard
              I really appreciate the brainstorming session and attempt to help.
              Definitely looking forward to when you guys introduce a new workflow for volumes.

              Cheers,
              Oliver

              https://www.artstation.com/mokiki

              Comment

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