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Faceted normals on poly faces - normal smoothing broken in glossy reflections

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  • Faceted normals on poly faces - normal smoothing broken in glossy reflections

    Hey Chaos Guys,
    Thanks for posting 2.4, finally! I'm running some tests to see how things are working. Cuda performance is looking impressive.

    However, I am seeing a problem I've seen often before, but I thought it would be solved by now. I've seen descriptions on this forum of this being due to the difference between normal smoothing (a cheat) and reflections on real geometry. Whatever the cause, the problem needs to be fixed on your end. So far, I've only seen this problem with Vray RT, testing with the CUDA engine. I haven't gotten as far as checking to see if it exists in other renders. I expect that it's not a problem in the CPU renders, as it never has been before.

    I'm attaching the Maya scene and the resulting render. If you look a the dark sphere, on the upper-left area of the surface, you'll see the problem clearly. With more glossiness in the reflection, the problem gets progressively worse. Basically, the diffuse and standard reflections are rendering "normally," and respecting geometry smoothing, but the glossy reflections are rendering as if the normals are set hard on the facets of the geometry, as if you had used Maya's Normals > Set To Face command.

    This may be physically accurate -- I know it's supposed to be the hallmark of a GPU renderer -- but it's unacceptable from an artistic point of view. I'm can't work with 50-million-polygon spheres just to get a smooth render. The renderer, regardless of which engine, needs to support normal smoothing, even if it's a cheat. If the cheat already exists, great! Please let me know how to use it. Otherwise, it's back to software rendering (Noooo!)
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Ok, thanks for the feedback, will check this out
    V-Ray/PhoenixFD for Maya developer

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    • #3
      Originally posted by stwagstaff View Post
      I haven't gotten as far as checking to see if it exists in other renders.
      It exists to varying degrees in all renderers that I've seen.

      Best regards,
      Vlado
      I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

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      • #4
        RT/CPU works fine with this scene. Will check if there is some RT/GPU specific issue with glossiness.
        V-Ray/PhoenixFD for Maya developer

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        • #5
          This thread may be really old but I'm having this problem very badly with carpaint. I'm running Vray 3 and having this problem with all projects I have been doing since switching to Vray from Mental ray last year. Has there been any improvement on this? Or at least a workaround?

          -KClick image for larger version

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          • #6
            The workaround is to tessellate the geometry more or to use subdivision surfaces...
            V-Ray developer

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            • #7
              We are also working on some new BRDF models that might be able to handle this better, but let me do a few tests first.

              Best regards,
              Vlado
              I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

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              • #8
                Thanks guys,

                Subdividing makes the tiling smaller but soesn't solve the problem. A measured BRDF system sounds good, I was using measured carpaint in Mental Ray and the result were great, the material reacts just like it does in the studio.

                Can you keep me in the loop as this develops?

                thanks again,

                -K

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                • #9
                  Here is a comparison between GGX and Ward; you can see that GGX, while not perfect, handles this a lot better.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	851811

                  Best regards,
                  Vlado
                  I only act like I know everything, Rogers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looks promissing, when do you think it's going to be introduced?

                    -K

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vlado View Post
                      Here is a comparison between GGX and Ward; you can see that GGX, while not perfect, handles this a lot better.

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]19127[/ATTACH]

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]19128[/ATTACH]

                      Best regards,
                      Vlado
                      Really nice results here - I was recently struggling with this issue and it's good to see GGX seems to handle it so well.
                      Akin Bilgic | CGGallery.com
                      Modeler & Generalist TD

                      V-Ray Render Optimization
                      V-Ray DMC Calculator

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