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Team Workflow and shared shading networks
Hi all,
This could be related to a general Maya question, but it has also to do with Vray nodes, so I thought I'd try to post here to get maybe some advices.
Trying to improve the workflow I had again a look at the referencing feature that we never used so much.
The idea, to make it short, is:
-one guy at modelling stage
-one guy at shading/lighting/rendering stage
-pretty simple team, eh
To make it efficient, I think it's nice that the modelling guy can apply basic shaders to the different objects to distribute already the materials.
The rendering guy would then just reference the modelled scene and apply the right (final) shaders. I thought it would be great to have a solution to do that automatically. If you have to reload the reference several times (with changes) you don't want to apply shaders several times.
For now, I test this with Maya2014 and Vray 2.
-first, there is off course the feature that Maya reminds when you apply a shader to objects. When you reload the reference, it does the change again. But this works only on the objects that were already in the scene.
Example1:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. All with lambert
-rendering scene references modelling scene and assigns shader1 to cube1, shader2 to cube2
-modelling scene adds cube3
-rendering scene updates reference, shader1 is automatically applied to cube1, and shader2 is automatically applied to cube2. cube3 has it's lambert.
-nothing special here.
Example2:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply lambert1 to cube1 and lambert2 to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene and assigns Vrayshader1 to cube1, Vrayshader2 to cube2 by doing "select objects with material" and "assign material to selection".
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns lambert2.
-rendering scene updates reference, Vrayshader1 is automatically applied to cube1, and Vrayshader2 is automatically applied to cube2. cube3 has it's lambert2.
-we would want that all objects that have lambert2 applied in modelling scene get Vrayshader2 applied automatically, but maya remembers only that materials were applied to the objects that were there before....
Now, we have this super feature at file referencing "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks". WOW, I can replace the shaders automatically !
Example3:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply lambert1 to cube1 and lambert2 to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have lambert1 and lambert2, but with different settings. Shaders are automatically replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-WOW
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns lambert2.
-rendering scene updates reference, cube1 has updated lambert1, cube2 and cube3 has updated lambert2.
-WOW, WOW
Example4:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (lambert) to cube1 and shader2 (lambert) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayMtl).
-Shaders are not replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-Limitation: shading networks can be shared ONLY if same name and same type !
-Grmpffff
OK, never mind. I can create Basic Vray shaders in the modelling scene and replace them by "real" Vray shaders !
Example5:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayMtl basic) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayMtl) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...). Shaders are automatically replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns shader2 (VrayMtl basic).
-rendering scene updates reference, cube1 has updated shader1 (VrayMtl), cube2 and cube3 has updated shader2 (VrayMtl).
-GREAT !
Example6:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayMtl basic) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...).
-Shader1 is automatically replaced by the one that is in the rendering scene, but not shader2! Damn, shader2 is blendMtl and not VrayMtl, Maya can see that. Arghhhh
Example7:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl basic/ nothing in base and coat materials) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl / other materials connected to base and coat materials) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...).
-Shader1 is automatically replaced by the one that is in the rendering scene, but not shader2! Damn, that doesn't work either. Arghhhh
A lot of bla bla.... but I had to share my experience to explain. Am I missing something ? Is this "Shared Shading Networks" a great feature, that is just not useful ? :/
I remember having this exact workflow between Maya and Maxwell Studio. Studio just asked you: "material is already in scene, do you want to replace ?" regardless if it was a lambert or something else. And bam! you could reassign everything in your scene by just having the same names.
Beyond this complaining.... how do you guys work in a team ? I'm always very concerned about the duplicate shaders, assigning and so on....
Thanks a lot for reading all this
Olivier
This could be related to a general Maya question, but it has also to do with Vray nodes, so I thought I'd try to post here to get maybe some advices.
Trying to improve the workflow I had again a look at the referencing feature that we never used so much.
The idea, to make it short, is:
-one guy at modelling stage
-one guy at shading/lighting/rendering stage
-pretty simple team, eh
To make it efficient, I think it's nice that the modelling guy can apply basic shaders to the different objects to distribute already the materials.
The rendering guy would then just reference the modelled scene and apply the right (final) shaders. I thought it would be great to have a solution to do that automatically. If you have to reload the reference several times (with changes) you don't want to apply shaders several times.
For now, I test this with Maya2014 and Vray 2.
-first, there is off course the feature that Maya reminds when you apply a shader to objects. When you reload the reference, it does the change again. But this works only on the objects that were already in the scene.
Example1:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. All with lambert
-rendering scene references modelling scene and assigns shader1 to cube1, shader2 to cube2
-modelling scene adds cube3
-rendering scene updates reference, shader1 is automatically applied to cube1, and shader2 is automatically applied to cube2. cube3 has it's lambert.
-nothing special here.
Example2:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply lambert1 to cube1 and lambert2 to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene and assigns Vrayshader1 to cube1, Vrayshader2 to cube2 by doing "select objects with material" and "assign material to selection".
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns lambert2.
-rendering scene updates reference, Vrayshader1 is automatically applied to cube1, and Vrayshader2 is automatically applied to cube2. cube3 has it's lambert2.
-we would want that all objects that have lambert2 applied in modelling scene get Vrayshader2 applied automatically, but maya remembers only that materials were applied to the objects that were there before....
Now, we have this super feature at file referencing "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks". WOW, I can replace the shaders automatically !
Example3:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply lambert1 to cube1 and lambert2 to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have lambert1 and lambert2, but with different settings. Shaders are automatically replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-WOW
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns lambert2.
-rendering scene updates reference, cube1 has updated lambert1, cube2 and cube3 has updated lambert2.
-WOW, WOW
Example4:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (lambert) to cube1 and shader2 (lambert) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayMtl).
-Shaders are not replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-Limitation: shading networks can be shared ONLY if same name and same type !
-Grmpffff
OK, never mind. I can create Basic Vray shaders in the modelling scene and replace them by "real" Vray shaders !
Example5:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayMtl basic) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayMtl) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...). Shaders are automatically replaced by the ones that are in the rendering scene.
-modelling scene adds cube3 and assigns shader2 (VrayMtl basic).
-rendering scene updates reference, cube1 has updated shader1 (VrayMtl), cube2 and cube3 has updated shader2 (VrayMtl).
-GREAT !
Example6:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayMtl basic) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...).
-Shader1 is automatically replaced by the one that is in the rendering scene, but not shader2! Damn, shader2 is blendMtl and not VrayMtl, Maya can see that. Arghhhh
Example7:
-modelling scene has cube1 and cube2. we apply shader1 (VrayMtl basic) to cube1 and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl basic/ nothing in base and coat materials) to cube2.
-rendering scene references modelling scene with "Shared Reference Options -> tick Shading networks".
-in this rendering scene we have shader1 (VrayMtl) and shader2 (VrayBlendMtl / other materials connected to base and coat materials) with different settings (reflection, roughness, etc...).
-Shader1 is automatically replaced by the one that is in the rendering scene, but not shader2! Damn, that doesn't work either. Arghhhh
A lot of bla bla.... but I had to share my experience to explain. Am I missing something ? Is this "Shared Shading Networks" a great feature, that is just not useful ? :/
I remember having this exact workflow between Maya and Maxwell Studio. Studio just asked you: "material is already in scene, do you want to replace ?" regardless if it was a lambert or something else. And bam! you could reassign everything in your scene by just having the same names.
Beyond this complaining.... how do you guys work in a team ? I'm always very concerned about the duplicate shaders, assigning and so on....
Thanks a lot for reading all this
Olivier
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