Modo render to v-ray cheat sheet?

[brijcharan]

Is there a guide/cheat-sheet for translating the equivalent modo 11 settings to v-ray render settings?


Specifically I want to know what the equivalent 'quality' settings may be in vray compared to modo.

modo 11 added some preset modes to rendering, that do various GI and IC values when rendering a scene, with draft/medium/high/ etc.

I'm just wondering if there's a translation of those settings to the v-ray type settings? I know there is a max 'paths per pixel' setting which kinda feels like a quality limit.

Also, when using the 'max paths per pixel', how do you get v-ray to stop the rt render? It seems to stop processing, but the actual viewport still seems to be in 'render' mode with the 'stop' button enabled.

Thank you!

[brijcharan]

Update:

Ok I've been watching the quickstart videos. Looks like Richard (I think its Richard Yot), actually does the translation for you, he explains the previous 'modo' settings and compares to the associated V-Ray settings.
Very helpful!

[GidPDX]

Note though that those videos are not completely up to date AFAIK. They revamped how the image sampler works and it's actually much easier to work with and understand. I would search for some videos on youtube about the changes I think since 3.3 to this area.

In most cases you'll just want to use Adaptive sampling or Progressive, and then only fiddle with 3 settings, often only 2- the threshold and max sub divs.

I try the threshold first to get arid of noise, then if that stops working, I try upping the Max sub-divs. Rinse repeat. Then if that fails, I try min sub divs (almost never have to go above 1 or 2). Only had to touch Min shading rate once so far- normally just leave it alone.

The only other settings I sometimes mess with are the aa filter type (gaussian is more like MODO), the denoiser, and choosing between Irradiance map or brute force for primary rays, and brute force or IC for secondary rays. For me, both at brute force is often best and easiest to work with, but if you do arch viz you'll want to learn more about Irradiance maps and IC.

That all said, 9 times out of 10 you probably only need to mess with the threshold and the max subdivs, switch denoiser on and then go from there especially once you know what kind of scene your dealing with. Thats at least been my experience.

Obviously there are instances where work flows like mine fail, and there are plenty of ways to refine a render in Vray, but happily it seems you don't often need to go into those areas for the most part- at least when starting out.

[brijcharan]

Awesome, thank you GidPDX.
Ya I kinda translated as much as I could with what the old settings were compared to new.
I turned off global subdivs and edited subdivs per material. I like the strategy. Seems to work.

Also I swtiched from Brute force to IC, which sped up renders a fair bit for me. Still lots to learn! heh

I'm assuming its ok to look at other tutorials (like 3dsmax) as the v-ray settings themselves should be similar right?

[brijcharan]

I found the denoiser doesn't give me great results, it takes the 'fireflies' sometimes and makes them big pixelated blobs? Everything in the denoiser seems to be 'fuzzy'. So I usually set an RT noise stop of 0.05 or something to fix it.

[vladimir.nedev]

Ya I kinda translated as much as I could with what the old settings were compared to new.
I turned off global subdivs and edited subdivs per material. I like the strategy. Seems to work.

Do you mean you turned on the global subdivs ? That's not the recommended work flow, in the long run it will cause you more troubles.

We need to remove the quick start video on render settings from the docs site probably, it's outdated at this point.

Also I swtiched from Brute force to IC, which sped up renders a fair bit for me. Still lots to learn! heh

That's also not recommended, keeping the GI at brute force for primary and light cache for secondary is recommended.
This ensures that you don't get any splotches or other artifacts that the irradiance map can cause, which means your renders will look better in the end.
Maybe you can use irradiance map for quick previews, but if you want the best final quality, brute force is the way to go.

I found the denoiser doesn't give me great results, it takes the 'fireflies' sometimes and makes them big pixelated blobs? Everything in the denoiser seems to be 'fuzzy'. So I usually set an RT noise stop of 0.05 or something to fix it.

0.05 is a pretty high noise threshold I think. You need to go lower for a final rendering.
The denoiser is for removing those final little bits of noise that would take ages to clear normally.
If you give it a very noisy image to work with, it can't really make it look good.

Also, when using the 'max paths per pixel', how do you get v-ray to stop the rt render? It seems to stop processing, but the actual viewport still seems to be in 'render' mode with the 'stop' button enabled.

Yes, it's waiting for changes to the scene, so it can begin rendering the changed scene.

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

[brijcharan]

Do you mean you turned on the global subdivs ? That's not the recommended work flow, in the long run it will cause you more troubles.

We need to remove the quick start video on render settings from the docs site probably, it's outdated at this point.

no I turned global subdivs off. Then I adjusted the subdiv settings on each material.

That's also not recommended, keeping the GI at brute force for primary and light cache for secondary is recommended.
This ensures that you don't get any splotches or other artifacts that the irradiance map can cause, which means your renders will look better in the end.
Maybe you can use irradiance map for quick previews, but if you want the best final quality, brute force is the way to go.

Ok, that is good to know!

0.05 is a pretty high noise threshold I think. You need to go lower for a final rendering.
The denoiser is for removing those final little bits of noise that would take ages to clear normally.
If you give it a very noisy image to work with, it can't really make it look good.

Interesting, Coming from a photographic background, 0.05 didn't seem to bad, as it felt more real to have some noise. But I see what you mean. Is there a table that lists appropriate values for noise levels?

Yes, it's waiting for changes to the scene, so it can begin rendering the changed scene.

Ok I see. I like using the RT-Gpu for the extra speed. It's very nice!

Finally, is there plans for a new video to show more up to date render settings. The quick start video was good because it helped translate like this setting in vray is Somewhat like that setting in modo


Thank you again Vladimir. I'm really enjoying my new purchase of v-ray!

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev
[/QUOTE]

[GidPDX]

brijcharan, I think you misunderstood and you're making a lot of extra work for yourself that's not needed. You shouldn't actually be messing with the local subdivs like Richard showed in that video. Honestly you only need to mess with the settings I spoke about 95% of the time.

Maybe I have it wrong, but the defaults for the DMC are optimized for adaptive and progressive image sampling- these are the recommended modes for most rendering and take advantage of the new system.

You're not going to find a 1=1 between MODO's render and Vray's. They have similarities, but it's better to just take most of it as a different engine. For instance, in MODO, outside of preview, you often don't want to set a globally tight shading rate, but do it per shader when needed. This is NOT the case with Vray- again because of how the adaptive sampling now works. You set the threshold, and let it figure out where to throw the samples.

Trust us- the Yot videos were good, but they are out of date. They should actually be removed from the docs IMHO, at least the areas that talk about sampling and getting cleaner renders as they now only cause confusion. They confused me when I first started that's for sure. Have you joined the skype thread or Discord one?

BTW The denoiser isn't perfect, but trust me...it's amazing when used right:

http://community.foundry.com/discuss/post/1039002

[vladimir.nedev]

no I turned global subdivs off. Then I adjusted the subdiv settings on each material.

I see, it's better to have the global subdivs on (i.e. uncheck the use local subdivs option).
Adjusting the per-material and per-light subdivs can take a lot of your time, and not amount to any savings in render time.

Is there a table that lists appropriate values for noise levels?

Not that I know of, I think 0.005 should give you pretty good quality. If using the denoiser, you can go higher. I guess you can just experiment with it until you find values that you like and use them as starting points on new scenes.

Greetings,
Vladimir Nedev

[GidPDX]

I actually sometimes take the RGB output, and then blend it over the denoiser result on mild, just to bring back enough noise to prevent banding and make things feel a bit more believable. It's also helpful for materials that actually are noisy as the denoiser can't always tell what's noise vs. what is supposed to be a rough texture.

[brijcharan]

brijcharan, I think you misunderstood and you're making a lot of extra work for yourself that's not needed. You shouldn't actually be messing with the local subdivs like Richard showed in that video. Honestly you only need to mess with the settings I spoke about 95% of the time.

Ohhh. HAha, Ok that makes more sense. Good to know!

You're not going to find a 1=1 between MODO's render and Vray's. They have similarities, but it's better to just take most of it as a different engine. For instance, in MODO, outside of preview, you often don't want to set a globally tight shading rate, but do it per shader when needed. This is NOT the case with Vray- again because of how the adaptive sampling now works. You set the threshold, and let it figure out where to throw the samples.

When you say set the threshold, thats that 0.05 value I was talking about right? Sorry I don't have my v-ray machine on me to reference the UI, as I'm at work right now.

Trust us- the Yot videos were good, but they are out of date. They should actually be removed from the docs IMHO, at least the areas that talk about sampling and getting cleaner renders as they now only cause confusion. They confused me when I first started that's for sure. Have you joined the skype thread or Discord one?
BTW The denoiser isn't perfect, but trust me...it's amazing when used right:

http://community.foundry.com/discuss/post/1039002

Ok Sounds good. I'll use the global settings them.
There's a skype thread? No, I haven't seen the skype thread, or the discord one!

[brijcharan]

I actually sometimes take the RGB output, and then blend it over the denoiser result on mild, just to bring back enough noise to prevent banding and make things feel a bit more believable. It's also helpful for materials that actually are noisy as the denoiser can't always tell what's noise vs. what is supposed to be a rough texture.

So does the denoiser rely on that 0.05 value then?
Also, when I use the denoiser, when I get the fuzzy denoiser results, is that because I'm not using Brute force as my primary?

Thanks so much, really appreciate the help!

[Muhammed_Hamed]

Can you post the results you are getting with Denoiser?
I use a threshold of .02 with denoiser and .007 without denoiser with adaptive sampler..And .005 with progressive sampler or RT..Feel free to test until you get values that fits your scenes.
Also like others said use noise threshold to control the quality. The Max samples should be fine at 50 or 100 for most cases. The Min shading rate,you don't need to change it 90% of times unless you are using progressive sampler for example with very strong depth of field,in this case use 3 so DOF effect cleans faster.
This video sums it up for sampling in Vray. it applies to vray 3.5 as well. For GI intensive scenes like interior use BF + LC with 3000 samples or 2000 samples other than that 1000 should be enough. You can use IR instead of BF too,but for me I always use BF + LC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS3XP9TDCwM

[brijcharan]

Can you post the results you are getting with Denoiser?
I use a threshold of .02 with denoiser and .007 without denoiser with adaptive sampler..And .005 with progressive sampler or RT..Feel free to test until you get values that fits your scenes.
Also like others said use noise threshold to control the quality. The Max samples should be fine at 50 or 100 for most cases. The Min shading rate,you don't need to change it 90% of times unless you are using progressive sampler for example with very strong depth of field,in this case use 3 so DOF effect cleans faster.
This video sums it up for sampling in Vray. it applies to vray 3.5 as well. For GI intensive scenes like interior use BF + LC with 3000 samples or 2000 samples other than that 1000 should be enough. You can use IR instead of BF too,but for me I always use BF + LC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS3XP9TDCwM

Sounds good. I will do some test renders this weekend and post my results. I'm 100% confident I'm just rendering incorrectly
I will check out that link as well, thank you!

[brijcharan]

Ok I tried to recreate the scene in modo that the sampling video had (link above), as closely as I can. (I used interior hdr from modo's presets instead of real lights).

Yes, that denoiser is pretty impressive when you somewhat know what you're doing!

I've attached 3 images.

for the First render, I chose the adaptive render, like the video, with the following settings:

• Min Shading Rate: 6
• Min Subdivs: 1
• Max Subdivs: 50
• Threshold: 0.015

Render looks pretty good. ( see screenshot.)

So then I thought, ok, let me drop the render settings right down at lower settings (like in video):

• Min Shading Rate: 6
• Min Subdivs: 1
• Max Subdivs: 6
• Threshold: 0.02

So then I turned on the denoiser with the above Low settings, on default denoise settings, 3rd attached image.

Turned out pretty good, less noise than the 12 minute 50-subdiv max render, but of course, ~2.5 minutes versus ~12.5 minutes.
mind you there are some subtle quality differences in the reflections if you look closely.

That denoiser is pretty slick!