Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

[Micha_cg]

Hallo,

what would you think, if an render engine would allow to use all render tricks to get fast clean renderings with less options only? What, if this render engine could be started and the whole image would refined step by step and could stoped, if the neseccary quality level is reached?

The last days I tryed to get Vray to work like this, and it seems to be possible. But the responce to my posts is not like expected. What is wrong? Is nobody interested?

I thought it could be a little revolution, to get nearly all advantages of Vray together. Please let me know, what you think.

-Micha

EDIT: Here universal setting dosn't mean slower than manual setting.

Edit II: If somebody like to test it, here the VisOpt file that can be loaded to the VfR options.
The settings can be done maual too, the important settings are:
* Image sampler: Adaptive QMC 1-99
* QMC sampler: adaptive amount 0.95 + noisethreshold 0.005
* Indirect Illumination - primary IM + secondary LC (multiplier 0.8 )
* Irradiance Map: min/max -3/0 + subdivs 99 + samples 20 + clr 0.3 + 0.1 + 0.1 + multipass enable
* Light cache: subdivs 1000 + screen + sample size 0.01 + adaptive disabled + store direct light enable + show calc enable + enable prefilter 10 + nearest + interpolation samles 5 + (use for glossy ray can be used)

Important: if arealight are used, than "store with irradiance map" should be enabled. The usage of area lights in portal mode in windows is not recommended.

[ALTO]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Why not???

Something like BusyRay?!

[Travis Serio_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

isn't that the same concept as maxwell?

From personal experience I find that people are adapted to render engines that have setting levels such as Fast - Lo Quality | Medium - Better Quality | Slow - Best Quality

any thing else only us nerds enjoy

[merlik585]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

I am not sure about that.When I started with VRAY,I did use the universal settings,it did helped me to understand.But now I much prefer using my settings which differs,depending what I am rendering.Micha's idea would be good for me to preview.But I much prefer tweak it the way I want,to get what I want,even if it means let the rendering complete over night.

Or may be I don't understand very well where he is going,could be the case.

Renee

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Travis, this is right. My idea are following settings:

- exterior vs. interior (change the LC subdiv count)
- low/medium/high quality GI (blotchieness, affect IM sample count: 50 or 100 or 150)
- low/high detailed geometry (shadow quality at small gaps, affect IM -/+ and LC subdivs)

So, we could speed up the rendering, but my Adaptive IM settings are quite fast now. It must be tested.

If Vlado could make the progressiv QMC available, than we would not need to touch any subdiv value.
If Valdo could make, that the adaptive IM is independent from the adaptive QMC, than we could set the bluryness quality of DOF, reflection and refraction. Now, the blur quality is a quite high allways.

One problem is, that the LC sample size and subdiv count are independent from the image size. Or can we use the "world" scale? It would be nice, if the UI could calculate the right size/subdiv count from a good standard value like 1000 subdivs/size 0.01 for 800x600 pixel images.

If anything would work like I expect, than we could setup Vray in two user interface modi - advanced and standard. The standard would show a few low/medium/high settings only and materials with greyed out subdiv values.

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

I am not sure about that.When I started with VRAY,I did use the universal settings,it did helped me to understand.But now I much prefer using my settings which differs,depending what I am rendering.Micha's idea would be good for me to preview.But I much prefer tweak it the way I want,to get what I want,even if it means let the rendering complete over night.

Or may be I don't understand very well where he is going,could be the case.

Renee

You must test my settings on your scenes, please, please. I have tesed it at my last projects and wonder me how good it work. Render with my settings and than try to get the same quality with manual settings. Exterior can be a very little faster in manual mode, but it dosn't matter, because exteriors are fast allways. So my experience.

My experience: my new universal settings are good like manual settings or better. This is my unbeliveable test result. I would recommend to shift this settings for one reason at the moment - I have a small problem with light blotches at large plane surface like walls and ceilings (increase IM samples at 150 helps, but it increase the render time). If Vlado could fine tune the IM process a little, we could render very high quality with my current settings without to increase the render time to much. At the moment the quality is high only. Sampling of large plane surfaces - sounds not difficult and should not increase the rendertime or?

[merlik585]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Micha the interior scene you are using is there a version with your material assign somewhere ?All I can find is the original scene.

I am rendering an old scene of mine with the setting you posted on the chaos NG,I will see what happens .

BTW why can't I post there,I am registered,but can read everything ?

Thanks,

Renee

I mean I can read and see everything,but cannot post

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

VfR user will get full access to chaosgroup later. I suppose so the ASGvis team is full working at the SR now.

Here the scene:
http://www.simulacrum.de/download/MRsceneRhino.rar

[merlik585]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Obviously I must do something wrong with Micha's settings.
The first image is my original image.The second one is the same image but with a 400x400 rendering
The last image is with Micha's settings

The rendering did not even start yet,it was at prepass 4

[merlik585]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Thanks Micha !

[ALTO]

Re: Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Why not???

Something like BusyRay?!

EDIT: Here universal setting dosn't mean slower than manual setting.

Eh Eh! Don't worry, just kidding!

Seriuosly i think this could be nice, but it needs a lot of tests! What about caustics?

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

@RVallieres: Does it work now? If not, please send me the option export file at e-post a simulacrum de .

@ALTO: Caustic will be the next interesting experiment, but it could work like befor independent from the new workflow. But befor start with Caustics, I wait for response from Vlado.

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

I edit the first post and add the settings for the fast universal adaptive IM method.

[merlik585]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Micha,

I have emailed you the settings I found on chaos ng.

I redid the rendering with the file you linked on your first post(there is small differences between the file and the settings you wrote under)So I choose the one you wrote.For the same rendering my time is 4 minutes slower than what I get with my settings,with no amelioration,and it is not a progressive rendering as you wrote in fact I can't see any differences in the process,from what i get earlier.

So I redid with the settings found on chaos,I stopped it after 32 minutes the rendering was fine,but I hat to guess what it would be because I can't see any refinement step by step as you mentioned.

To make it short,I am not yet convinced,I really don't see any advantages for this for me at least may be on an interior scene?

Renee

[Micha_cg]

Vray - also a fast one button render engine?

Best you do two independent test first.

(a) progressive rendering ala this way

The basic idea is, that first raw full lighting is calculated by LC and than the QMC process start. If you use a single core engine, set bucket size same or bigger as image size. At dual core engines you must set the bucket size at half image size. The strong noisethreshold makes, that the QMC process render very long, but if you cancel the rendering, than you can see the current sampled image. This method is useful for test only, because the progressiv preview is not working (Vlado must make, that the buckets are updated every minute or so). I want to show with this experiment, that it is possible to render progessiv with QMC and faster as PPT.

(b) Adaptive IM - use the settings of my first post (Edit II). This method is not progressiv, but show, that one setup is useable for many situations and fast too. Let bucket size default or something small.

If both experiments are working fine, you can start to combine both. You use the setup of (b), but set the bucket size like at (a). Now, first LC is calculated, than IM and the final pass start. Progressiv rendering dosn't show a progressiv preview now.

Your visopt looks ok. I'm not sure you need the default lights for your scene. I recommend to play with experiment (b) first, so set bucket size at 40x40 or something small. But general your setup should work. Cancel the render after the final calcualtion was working a while. If you stop during the IM pass, than you get the IM only. The method is not 100% progressiv, first the prepasses must be calculated and only the final pass is growing progressiv.