Physical camera and depth of field

[Joppi]

What is the trick with depth of field effect when using physical camera? Can´t get it to work... I guess it´s working in another way than with standard camera. Read something about F-stop?

Can someone kind person give me a way into it?

[Gijs]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

currently, DOF and physical camera are not working together

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

Yes they are...you need to override the focal length (in the physical camera) and set the angle manually. Then you need to have DOF enabled in the section below the physical camera. Note that the aperture value in those settings will not be valid, the F-Stop settings in the physical camera will generate the appropriate DOF.

[Gijs]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

sorry for the wrong info :-[

why doesn't it read the default camera values? bug or on purpose?

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

don't really know...I barely found it myself...I think Renee was the one who actually "uncovered" it...

[Micha_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

bug ... reported befor RC relaese

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

Micha...why is everything a bug first??? From my point of view, its how things need to be set up from a UI point of view to "confirm" that the user wants to use DOF with the physical camera. Do I think its the best way? No, but thats the implementation at the moment. Any suggestions on a better implementation?

[Micha_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

My position is, it is a bug, because the override function is for override the Rhino cam, but there is no internal link to the Rhino cam. If override isn't use, than the DOF is linked to nothing, so that users belive, it dosn't work.
It should be like the spherical cam - I can use the Rhino cam FOV or override it and set an own FOV. And if users belive, the phys cam DOF dosn't work, because the UI dosn't work like expected than it is for me a bug. You mean it is feature? Any suggestions on a better implementation? Is it realy the question?

I don't understand "to "confirm" that the user wants to use DOF with the physical camera" - what should the user other expect, if he enable DOF?
An UI issue is, that two override options are available for phys cam DOF and two options for the intensity - F-number and aperture. This is no bug, it's a UI issue, the not working options should be greyed out.

PS: Sorry, if I sound frustrated. I have a VfR blues. :-\

[Gijs]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

it is not a technical bug, but still I think it should be changed, and like Micha said, the UI options that are irrelevant should be grayed out. I see no use in having to confirm using dof: that's where the dof checkbox is for!

[Micha_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

... the focus of the standard cam is linked to the rhino cam - simple enable DOF and you get DOF.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

I while back I was talking with Joe about UI implementation for the DOF with the physical camera. His thing was that he didn't want people to have 2 places to set DOF as he thought that would be confusing. However, he also wanted the user to know that they were setting DOF with the Physical camera. For those reasons I'm saying that its an issue with the implementation at the moment.

To me a bug is something that is not working correctly, something that gets changed when it shouldn't, or is uneffected when it should be effected. In this case, this was the chosen method of implementation, and as I said before, probably not the best method. If it was a bug, then something about it would be working incorrectly, which, as I see it, everything is working how its set up to work. Its just the setup which is not desirable.

Sorry to take this discussion completely off track, but this would be a non issue if Rhino had real camera objects. In Max all of the UI for the Physical cam is in the camera object, not the Options panel. Therefore, its a completely different place where physCam DOF and regular DOF is set. We don't have that separation, which is unfortunate. Ultimately, I think we should just have all of the settings that are specific to the Physical Cam under, and set through the physical cam. It may look weird that there are 2 settings for everything, but if its clear that one is for the regular camera, and ones for the physCam, then it shouldn't be too bad.

Sorry for referencing a conversation that none of you all knew about. I by no means want to discourage bug reporting or extending any vfr blues you may have. I'm here to help as much as possible.

[Joppi]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

Ok, hm... not that easy then.

But I still doesn´t get it to work. My scene is a large site with cabins. And i want to render a scene with a part of cabin in the foreground (distance 8m) end in the background another one (130 m) that are blurred with DOF.

My F-stop is set to 4, but i still doesn´t get the effect. I also tried to play around with "focal distance" (below fys Cam) with no remarkable result.

The option "override focal lenght" in PhysCam seems to just totaly change the composision of the view, not any DOF-effect.

Any advises, how I can try further?

[Micha_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

... is uneffected when it should be effected.

If "override" isn't enabled at the phys cam and DOF, than the camera-target distance of the current Rhino cam should be used, but this isn't the case. That's the reason why the user get no DOF effect per default DOF. Or is it fixed and I have overseen it?

Joppi, best you don't use the phys cam, if you need DOF. Focus of the default cam is at the Rhino cam target. At my render tool collection you can find a button for click on a detail of the view and this one is focused - no manual setup of distance is needed like at the current phys cam.

[Joppi]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

Thanks micha, ok!

Yep, DOF with standard Cam working very well everytime, i´ll go for this one for the DOF but i lost ths Phys sky thou...

[Micha_cg]

Re: Physical camera and depth of field

No, phys sky works well for standard cam too. The advantages of the phys cam are:

- vignetting*
- shift lens
- white balance*
- distortion

* can be well done in post work too, the others too, but with some quality lost