Toothpaste Material

[**dubs**]

Hello all,

I was hoping for some help to create a Liquid Gel type of toothpaste material. . .

something like this (without the stripes):



... or this:



Has anyone any ideas?

I'll post my first effort tomorrow, I'm thinking of starting with a material like silicone Gel from the download section. . .

Cheers

Stu

oh, p.s. its a material which will appear in a bottle!

[fpedrogo]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Hi
Maybe you can trick a little bit the silicone gel material from our download area.

http://software.asgvis.com/index.php...itle=Synthetic

Best

[frip51]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Be prepared that translucency eats up lots and lots of rendertime

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

No kidding Mathias!

The following 2 renders were done on a Q6600 @ 2.8ghz. . . The resolution is 800x466. . . and the render time. . .

Terrible!!!

My first two tests:



...and:



Hope those images appear properly. . .

Neither of those 2 materials have Translucency enabled, so I'm guessing half of he problem is caused by my polypropelene bottle material? The rendertime shouldn't be that long!? not on a quad core?

Things that need addressing:
- Simplify Bottle Material
- More colour (although the blue test render has a nice gradual translucency going on!?)
- Needs more gloss!
- Amount of Fog in the material?

Oh, I found a Image that summarises what I am ultimately trying to replicate



Round 2 for testing!

[frip51]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Well... as for the reflexions, try to get rid of the white ground plane and put in something that actually can be reflected from your materials. I often wondered how much difference another surrounding can make when it comes to material properties. Test render the bottle with a checkered groundplane and a colourful reflexion map maybe!

Refractive materials are dead tricky. Translucent ones even more

I'll try to play around when I find some time...


Cheers,
matt

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

I had a reasonable result late yesterday. . . I'll post it when I get home

On the first 2 renders above I made a silly mistake . . . For the Toothpaste inside the bottle, the polysurf wasn't 'closed'. . . which is what caused the terrible rendertime and the dull, opaque appearance of the toothpaste in the render.

Changing the groundplane is a good suggestion Mathias, The groundplane I have in there currently is one I use with a 3 light setup to give a white background for product shots (essentially you see the product, its soft shadow and everything else is white) but admittedly this is not the best scenario for a test render.

There is some reflection/refraction in there at the top of the bottle. . . (I've used a white GI and the 3 spotlights for lighting and placed the HDRI in the background to give realistic reflections and refractions but not influence the lighting in any way. It works really well for small domestic appliance/white background shots. . . but for this I see the merit of your suggestion!!

The bottle I have here is just one I modeled in 3 minutes, I don't know if I can show the actual bottle. . .

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

I've got a few more results here, I re did them with a couple of blobs of toothpaste infront to show reflection and a chequered background behind for refrence to transparency. . .







The bottle itself could look better with slight adjustments to the (diffuse) Transparency and Refraction Glossiness I think, Refraction glossiness adds massively to the render time, unfortunately, so I might do this on the final image, but not right now. :-\

The toothpaste looks decent, render time is reasonable too. Any suggestions for improving?

Cheers

Stu

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Well, to issue an update just incase anyone is interested. . .

The final render was rendered at 2923x2067 and took 31 hours 45 mins. . . Admitedly, thats a long time but I try in most cases to get the best qualty of output I can from a rendering, time is not so critical here. I used Light Cache and Irradiance Map -3, -1 for 3 pre-passes and DOF was applied, there is no post processing done yet, these are raw renderings, but in anycase I don't think there is much to do.

The same resolution image with 'overide materials' enabled (+ DoF) took 15mins 13.6 seconds, so the materials were adding massively to the calculation time!. . . not sure what could be done to the materials to reduce time but maintain quality . . .

I did drop the Refraction glossiness of the PP bottle material to 0.85 for these finals. . .

Here is a couple of examples I re-rendered at 800x467 to tell a more complete story of where I ended up. . .

Nice big bold 'Hero' Image:



Overide Materials: (look at the calculation time difference!)



and. . . close up/detail 1:



close up/detail 2:



Comments, constructive criticism and suggestions welcome! Naturally I'm open to stuff that allows me to improve and learn, I'm more than happy to help others too. . . time permitting.

I've been using VfR for 2 1/2 years and I learn something new every day, I found the forums really awkward before they were updated to what they are now, I'm finding it easier to navigate and contribute these days, so I'm glad to be involved where-ever I'm welcome.

I'm happy to upload the materials if anyone wants/needs them for something similar, just drop me a message below

Cheers

Stu

[fpedrogo]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Very impressive! I like it .
Great job with the tooth paste material.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Toothpaste Material

The same resolution image with 'overide materials' enabled (+ DoF) took 15mins 13.6 seconds, so the materials were adding massively to the calculation time!. . . not sure what could be done to the materials to reduce time but maintain quality . . .

I'm curious - will the next VfR allow to use options to enable shortcuts to the blurry calculations like interpolation/calculation at lower resolution? Blurry refractions contain so less image informations, no details, there should be a lot of potential for speed ups.

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Thanks Fernando!

Thats a really interesting proposition Micha. . .

In the context of this experiment . . . The toothpaste material (seen above) was ok in terms of calculation time. . . (2 reflection layers, 1 diffue and 1 Refraction with fog) one of the reflection layers used Pernel noise)

The plastic bottle wasn't complicated either (1 reflection layer, 1 diffuse, 1 refraction layer with fog)

Dropping the refraction glossiness of both materials to .85 (which was done for the final renders seen above) multiplied the calculation time x3 (approx).

The big issue in these renders was that the toothpaste is viewed through the the Bottle! I was following the principle in the Vray manual (Liquid Inside Transparent Glass pg. 85) . . . that is 6 layers of refraction

Light ray . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Outer Bottle refract > 2 Toothpaste refract > 3 Inner Bottle refract.

. . . and then the same on the other side! Each one of those layers had a refraction glossiness less than 1.0, which might explain the dramatic increase in render time! . . . Literally 12 to 14 x time increase!

Watching the render in the frame buffer was an experience, the buckets would fly through the background and plain materials very rapidly, but as soon as they hit the bottle. . . s l o w understandably, as explained above, but for me personally, I don't know of a better way to aproach this in terms of improving time, but not negitively affecting quality.

Micha has a point here! (I hope people who know about these things read this far! lol) ;D

In principle, its not so different to using a blured low res HDR for lighting as opposed to a non blured high res HDR!? ???

I'm not sure this would be an issue asgvis could address so easily . . . but definately a 'nice to have' especially in situations like above!

[frip51]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Brilliant job, mate!

[fpedrogo]

Re: Toothpaste Material

I'm curious - will the next VfR allow to use options to enable shortcuts to the blurry calculations like interpolation/calculation at lower resolution? Blurry refractions contain so less image informations, no details, there should be a lot of potential for speed ups.

I agree with you Micha, this feature is very powerful. I hope we can include this feature in the future. To me the ability to interpolate the blurry material to speed up the render is a priority.

Best

[ozanb]

Re: Toothpaste Material

I might like the material if you would upload

[**dubs**]

Re: Toothpaste Material

Hmmmm, I'll happily upload it. . . now if i can just figure out how!?

Clues would be very welcome! ;D