OT: why VfR it's not V-Ray

[skysurfer]

I would like to point developers and chaosgroup on this subject.
I like the way VfR it's in active development but I'm worried about general strategies.
Rhino it's a Cad and it's not a rendering system.
From my point of view VfR it's not the same as V-Ray for 3Dmax or Maya, VfR has to be different.

I'm working as Rhino trainer since 2005 and the Rhino users are, mainly, Designer or Architect and they are not render geek.
I hate Keyshot but In the last 3 years most of the big company I've trained they changed from VfR to Keyshot due to the simple interface.

It's my point of view, of course, but Rhino users need more simplicity, user friendly interface and, very important, more presets.
Just an example : the material library. VfR doesn't have preset materials any more, Keyshot has new materials any month.

Please let start a discussion on the future of VfR.

[Micha]

Why not look for an unbiased engine? OK, the VfR UI is really quite chaotic at some places, but I hope it will be better organized once a day, but it will be not less parameters.

[renee81]

I think exactly like Micha,I don't want less parameters,i like the fact that I can tweak,whatever I want the way I want.What I want and need is more materials something like vrayblend,vraycarmaterial,vrayedgetexture,vrayover ridematerial,vrayfastsss,true that the ui is not very convivial,but it gets the work done.

oh and one more thing,clipping planes ! they are already available in Rhino,there must be a way to have vray work with.
I know there is workaround,but it is kind of painfull ,and it stays that a work around.

[mcvltd]

I think having a dumbed-down version would be disastrous! As a designer I still need a fantastic/flexible rendering tool. The fact that it's not Max etc is good in my book - one less piece of software to learn/buy, but I still need high quality images. Seems odd to suggest that cad users don't need the higher quality output of these other packages.

I think the real problem is the lack of learning material available. But saying that, I'm self-taught and had loads of fantastic help from the guys on the vray for max forum - where there's a will there's a way. Like everything, it takes a while to learn, just like good nurbs surfacing.

I think the development should be focussed on bringing vray for rhino up to the same level as vray for max rather than adding presets. A more friendly interface would be fine, but less parameters would be a disaster. Better learning material is the real key, there aren't too many things you need to tweak once you know the basics.

Just my opinion.

Rob.

[corey]

I agree with many points here. I'm taking notes and in some cases our team is working on or responding to many of these point already. I'm very interested in hearing what more people have to say. That is for sure. So, I'll keep "listening" here.

[reyloads]

I agree with both sides as well. As a designer, I love using Rhino. In it's update to 5, it is so much more user friendly than what some other designers would use. I have friends who are seniors in college and most of them use Keyshot due to its extremely user friendliness. And from the results that I have been seeing in its new updates, the results are pretty impressive. I confess, I have had thoughts about switching to Keyshot because of this "dumbed-Down" -ness. Sometimes I dont want to have to configure hundreds of different configuration in order to get a quick result. But on the other hand, I enjoy having that "depth" that VfR gives me that Keyshot never will.

Overall, I feel that VfR would benefit greatly from either better education for users, or less options. I would say that my results are pretty good with VfR, but there is a lot that I do not know. Like the Original Post said, Rhino is used mainly by designers. Designers do have to choose whether or not they want the learning curve of VRay or the simplicity of Keyshot.

[fooprobe]

as an educator, i'd vote for both. i'd hate to see the actual functionality get dumbed-down. but as you all know, i think it would be great if there were multiple variations on the interface (both for options and for materials). one for beginners, one for intermediate, one for advanced. maybe the beginners/intermediate could be combined, i don't know.

as for preset materials, i'm working on collecting as many vismats as i could find into a single website repository. but i have to check into getting permission from the people who made the materials to redistribute, which is a pain.

[Micha]

Emil, and don't forget to say, your simplified control panel that set the technical parameters could be a great deal for users who like Keyshot but want to use Vray.

http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...fied-UI-python

[mcvltd]

One thing I really like about VfR is the text that pops-up when you hover your cursor over some of the settings. I think this has massive potential for helping us all with getting the best out of vray.

I'm also wondering if the presets shouldn't come from the community? (like Emil is kindly doing) I guess this will become less of an issue when all the versions are unified as per the Chaos Group's plan and we'll be able to directly benefit from and contribute to the much larger Max community?

[fooprobe]

one thing that's on my list for the winter break is to have a settings dialog that would allow users to input their own preferred settings for the various sliders etc. wouldn't be too hard, i just have no time right now.

[skysurfer]

Email I will love this feature... But you are hijacking my thread once more


PLZ DESIGNER LET YOUR VOICE BE LISTEN!
I started this thread exactly because VfR need to have a double face.
I like VfR because it's parameter, but, as teacher, it's a big issue to explain basic to my student.

At the end could be enough to let, us, pro users help you creating add-on and plugin for dummies.

[mgibeault]

Personally I don't like when two UIs are available. I also think it's bad design and only show lack of imagination from the developers of such programs.
When I encounter such bi-polar UIs, I always end up using only the most complete, by fear of not finding what I'm looking for. I guess most users do the same.

What is needed is a more hierarchical interface when main parameters are clearly presented and less-used or more advanced ones are available but not as much put forward.

[Micha]

I tried to talk about the UI some times, only a better organization of the UI could help a lot, also me, a daily pro user. But it's difficult to motivate the developing team if the bug list shows more important things to do. I understand that bug needs to be fixed first. But if the team like to work on the UI I would like to help with suggestions.

[ALTO]

There is an old discussion about this (6 years ago!) here is the link: http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...ue-mass-succes

[corey]

We are for sure dedicating time to work on the UI for V-Ray 3.0. There are indeed 6 years worth of ideas and wishes to sort through...