Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

[Micha_cg]

... in the last weeks I try to render objects in studio environments often. Some big companies has very detailed restrictions, what must be visible and what not. So, often the Studio environment is invisible at the background, anything is white and a reflection/shadow is visible under the objects only.

Witout options like:

- visible/invisible for camera
- visible/invisible for reflections
- invisible lights with visible/invisible reflections or visible/invisible diffuse effect

it's not possible to do a serious work with tight deadlines. So, this missing options cause two things: lost projects or lost sleep by much extra work.

The problem is, there is no alternative engine to do this work. Some other engines support this features, but are to slow. Only Vray could do this tight deadline & high quality jobs at Rhino!
I hope the next SR will help here.

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

welcome to my wishlist =)

arent studio environments fun lol


I saw Joe a few weeks ago and we went over this very topic. He's all over it

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

Sounds good, I'm very curious.

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

I think we will get simple object reflections on/off at the object level for now, but I am not sure if it will be in the SR or not. Joe said he would try his hardest. Ultimately though I think he plans to have an object exclusion list so that you can pick what can or can't be reflected. I am sure this will probably take some time to code and make work properly.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

I am sure this will probably take some time to code and make work properly.

Its by no means a trivial thing at all. I'll press Joe to see if it can make it into the SR, but we've got a lot of things that we've been trying to get in this time around. It is something that we are looking to add though, so don't think its falling on deaf ears(I know I've been screaming for it as well ).

-Cheers from London

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

yeah it seems to be a logistical nightmare when i start thinking about it out loud lol. Good luck Joe! that's why you make the big bucks

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

My knowledge of the renderman standard code let me belive, something like this is easy to implement.
For example this is an object with some shader options

AttributeBegin
   Attribute "identifier" "name" [""]
   Surface "VRubber" "float Diffuse" [1] "float DiffuseRoughness" [0] "float Specular" [0]
   Color [ 0.168627 0.262745 0.501961 ]
   Opacity [ 1 1 1 ]
   Attribute "toon" "id" [100155]
   AttributeBegin
    PointsPolygons [ 4 4 ] [ 4 1 0 3 5 2 1 4 ] "P" [ 2657.08 1246.56 236.471 2657.08 1248.16 244.675 2657.08 1249.76 252.88 2561.32 1246.56 236.471 2561.32 1248.16 244.675 2561.32 1249.76 252.88 ] "N" [ 0 0.981563 -0.191138 0 0.981563 -0.191138 0 0.981563 -0.191138 0 0.981563 -0.191138 0 0.981563 -0.191138 0 0.981563 -0.191138 ] "st" [ 0 1 0 0.5 0 0 1 1 1 0.5 1 0 ]
   AttributeEnd
  AttributeEnd

and simple add this lines and visibilty is implemented

Attribute "visibility" "integer camera" [1] 
Attribute "visibility" "integer shadow" [0] 
Attribute "visibility" "integer trace" [0] 
Attribute "visibility" "integer indirect" [0]

I know Vray isn't Renderman, but maybe Vlado could enhance the SDK, so not every plugin programmer must discover new methods.

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

I think the simple reflections on/off isn't where the work will be. I think it will be managing other objects in the scene. so that 2 out of 3 objects reflect while 1 does not. That sort of thing. there will probably need to be some form or object manager that allows you to control the reflections of each additional object in the scene.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

First I would be happy about this simple visibility option, best object properties based.

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

there's also chaos in secondary ray reflections lol. invisible to primary but visible to secondaries.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

I suppose, it's no problem for the GI engines to take in acount the visibilties. For example the one-way-wall-method with the two-sided-material works too.

[Travis Serio_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

right. i agree, for vray's core it's not that bad. the work comes in managing it all via an interface. that's where joe has his work cut out for him.

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

It's time to create a material Vray option tab.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

right. i agree, for vray's core it's not that bad. the work comes in managing it all via an interface. that's where joe has his work cut out for him.

The interface is really where the challenge comes in (not that coding it won't be, but you get my point). We know that V-ray can do it, but how to handle that on the user's side is important and a big hurdle.

My suggestion (for reflections at least)...tell me what you think:
The concept is reflection groups. By default there is an uneditable group that contains all of the geometry in the scene and is automatically applied to all geometry. You can then create "reflection groups" to remove pieces of geometry and then apply that to whichever peice of geometry that you would like. As I see it now, there would be a separate "reflection group editor" to set up the groups and presumably an option in the v-ray tab to assign the reflection group.

It's time to create a material Vray option tab.

Much agreed

[Micha_cg]

Re: Please add per object (material) visibility options ...

I afraid a group manager need a half year more, but an object based visibilty could implement fast or?

I think, we could do much at an Vray oject properties tab. Also for grouping could be there options like: create group, add to group and delete group. So, if an user like to assign a object to a group, he could choose one by "add .." (a list og exist group pop up like the material browse option do) or "create.." (he type in a name).

Could we get at the next SR simple object based visibilty option only? Only a simple interface for hide objects from camera like the screenshot show?