Speed from render Jobs in Chaos Cloud

[henry_walon]

hallo Chaos Team,
I am currently experiencing the issue that the scenes from my current SketchUp (2023 ) model are taking much too long to complete. When I compare it to other jobs that were even more complex, the time that Chaos Cloud takes is much too long. -You can even see both examples from the screenshots.
What could be causing this? What possible errors might I have in the model?
Thank you for your help in advance.

[sirio76]

If you don't post your render settings render time is meaningless, for example if you set the threshold to 0.000 it will take almost forever to complete the job.

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Dear henry_walon, hello.

I will share some advices now:

• you are able to post Chaos Cloud issues also in the dedicated section https://forums.chaos.com/forum/chaos...s-cloud-issues
• when you report or share anything related to a Chaos Cloud job, the best way to start is to share the exact jobID, which could be easily found when you open the chosen job and copy/paste the ID shown in the browser Address bar.

Example:

Then we will be able to take a look at the exact jobs, their progress and results.

I am seeing that you are using Chaos Cloud a lot. Thank you for this and let's make the process more fluent and transparent for you.

Waiting for your answer.

Best regards,
TS

[henry_walon]

Hello Tsvetomira, It's good to be in contact and to know that you will help me solve my problem. I think it's better if I don't start a new request now and continue here with the described problem and I hope that it's okay for you this way.
the Job ID is : K-pDjFAZ-qsQFEfJ
Please take a look at it and let me know if you find anything useful right away, and inform me of any other important information I should provide to help you identifying the issue.
.right now I have another job in progress, and I realize that it also takes a long time and consumes many credits.
Job ID: K_14c1l_SgjZfmb8 ...
It can be a good thing if you can monitor what happens with this job from the beginning.
I'm providing you with the current settings in V-Ray.
Thank you in advance for the good work.

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Hi again, henry_walon.

Sure let's continue the discussion here and now, I was just proposing best report practices.
I see now that K_14c1l_SgjZfmb8 is completed successfully without any errors.
From the submitted .vrscene file and confirmed by the settings uploaded here, is visible that you changed the Bucket size to 10. The default value is 32.
This may cause a longer render time. I am running tests now. Also the chosen quality preset is High+.

In addition, the image looks overexposed and I will suggest adding LightMix Render Element and keeping the .vrimg format for output if you wish to edit the light in V-Ray Frame Buffer after the Cloud rendering is done.
Please take a look at the information shared about Chaos Cloud & LightMix and the similar approach for working with Chaos Cloud & Lens Effects.

About comparing jobs (the initial post request), I could share the following:
K-pDjFAZ-qsQFEfJ vs. KXwjXXHY-Whnb-qM

• submitted October 2 vs. July 08 (different V-Ray builds for the export)
• resolution 1080/1920 vs. 1440/1920
• different room, light scenarios and light calculations

I am now in the process of comparing jobs, but in general the fact that this is another interior scene doesn't mean that the credits will be the same - locally or on Chaos Cloud.
The rendering task is different.

Will share more information when I have some.
Thank you for the interesting investigation.

[henry_walon]

Hello Tsvetomira
I understand very well what you mean. But the difference is too significant, which has made me quite uncertain. In other words, I would like to know what the reasons for such a difference are so that I can try to reduce the render time. Seven hours of render time in the cloud are definitely too long.
Or is that normal in such a case? I didn't quite get that from your previous response.
With best regards.

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Hi henry_walon,

I understand your concerns.
Let's start from here - some delays on Chaos Cloud could be due to the Cloud service or could be related to the scene.

In your last job (K_14c1l_SgjZfmb8) there weren't any errors and the scene is indeed rendering even locally very slow when I tested it with V-Ray Standalone.
Have you tried starting the render with the very same settings on your machine?

From your screenshot is visible that you are using MacOS.
Could you please share is your machine M1/M2 or not and what exact OS type you are on?
Thereafter I will be able to test it again on MacOS.

Would it be possible to share with us the original scene?
We will investigate the lighting, materials, geometry and settings in detail.
If the answer is Yes, please use Extensions > V-Ray > Pack Project and send the archive via our contact form.

Please add in the description a link to the forum thread as well.

Waiting for your answer.

[henry_walon]

Hello Tsvetomira,

1- Yes, I understand what you mean, but I think it is not the case because the long render times are the same in other scenes from the same model and are happening at different moments.
2- Yes, I was trying this render job on my machine, and it was taking an incredibly long time, around 24 hours.
At this moment, I am rendering another scene from the same project (Küche_mit_Tisch), and it is taking even longer. It has already been 24 hours, and it is not finished yet; As you can see, it is only half finished. (I will put some screenshots here.)

3- Yes, I am working with Mac OS Mac Studio M1 Max, version 13.4.1.

infos:
Modellname: Mac Studio
Modell-Identifizierung: Mac13,1
Modellnummer: Z14J000JLD/A
Chip: Apple M1 Max
Gesamtanzahl der Kerne: 10 (8 Leistung und 2 Effizienz)
Speicher: 64 GB
Systemfirmwareversion: 8422.121.1
OS-Ladeprogrammversion: 8422.121.1
Seriennummer (System): L7W0R26MPH
Hardware-UUID: 8DAD6FB5-673B-5E47-B03A-9AD01208C404
Bereitstellungs-UDID: 00006001-000869963A41801E
Status der Aktivierungssperre: Deaktiviert

4- I have just sent you the original scene, as you asked. Let me know if you need any more information.
From my side, the most important thing is to understand what I can do with Chaos Cloud and my machine using Vray in this constellation. Just to know if these render times are normal or if I have a serious issue in my model.
Please feel free to reach out if you have any further questions or need additional details.

Thank you in advance for the help. With friendly regards.

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Hi Henry,

I have your project now, thank you!
Will share also here what the investigation will conclude.

[henry_walon]

Good evening Tsvetomira,
I am very curious about what will come out of this example and how I can further improve my model so that rendering doesn't take so long.
Thanks in advance. Henry

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Hi again, Henry!

Since the rendering process is taking 24 hours on your personal machine (which is a really good configuration) and I am able to confirm the enormous render times locally, there is not related at Chaos Cloud at all, but to the scene setup and content.
I have tested the scene on Win 11 and MacOS Sonoma within SketchUp and with V-Ray Standalone.
Now let's go step by step through the investigation.

This article from our blog is very well structured, please take a look at the key points.

Modeling

• Model Info Statistics is showing a lot of nested components, see here
• this is related to the objects that you have modeled yourself, the downloaded ones and how they are grouped

Shading

• In V-Ray Asset Editor were visible old material types (ASGVIS), which are causing NeUI errors and we recommend to avoid their usage, see here

Lighting

• Your V-Ray Dome Light is placed under the horizon and you have added two Infinite planes, which I am not sure that you want to really use
• The Lighting setup includes this V-Ray Dome Light with very low intensity (0.1) + SunLight (with Custom Orientation ON)+ a couple of Rectangle Lights + some Interior lights
• A simple step during the investigation process it to Revert to Default Settings. After doing this I noticed that the image is too dark - reverting it affecting also the Exposure Value. In your original scene it was set to 3.322, which makes the ISO 1600.

Please take a look at this forum post from our colleague Iva Mancheva. From the linked diagram there is visible that this value is close to Candle light. So, you are combining a dimly lit scene with high ISO to receive the final result.
You also have a lot of curtains which are not visible in the shot, but they are limiting the incoming light too. Take into account that you could hide them.
I tried changing the lighting setup via Light Gen and there was a significant difference in speed, which also proves that the Lighting scenario could be improved.

Rendering

• All this is influencing the light calculations, which take even more time since you have chosen Brute Force + Brute Force for GI. Here this method (Brute Force GI) is very well explained.
• I will recommend in your situation to switch to Brute Force + Light Cache with Medium or Medium+ Quality preset and Denoiser ON.
• Often the render time is increased due to the resolution, but in your case this is not the reason.

In addition, please be aware of the fact that you are able to use LightMix, Lens Effects and other post production operations in VFB even after rendering at Chaos Cloud, take a look at the linked forum posts.

In conclusion:
» feel free to hide/disable geometry which is not visible in the shot (as Fur, vegetation, curtains etc.)
» for Global Illumination try Brute Force + Light Cache with a preset lower than High+ and Denoiser ON
» pay attention to the lighting setup, experiment with Light Gen and Exposure Value to receive a balanced result
» delete the Infinite planes
» delete the old ASGVIS materials
» do tests also with Progressive image sampling mode, since at Chaos Cloud you will be able to stop the render process if the image is already fulfilling your quality needs (maybe you are using Bucket only for finals, but it's worth mentioning this).

Since we were originally comparing render jobs from August and the recent ones - I suspect that the model has become even more complex and the lighting setup has changed.
I may keep testing this scene, but wanted to share my findings since it took a significant amount of time.
Thank you for your patience and understanding!

[henry_walon]

Hello Tsvetomira, I'm looking forward to your insights, and I'm confident that your analysis will be very helpful for me and other visitors to this forum. I'll work on improving the models and achieving better results following these principles. Thank you very much for your effort and excellent work. The links are also very helpful. With best regards, Henry.

[tsvetomira.girginova]

Together we get better : )
Thank you too, Henry!

The scene is very interesting and highly detailed indeed.
Keep up the 3D work and contact us again if assistance is needed.

Wishing you all the best.