Texture Editor Offset Units?

[Jackson_cg]

Are they model units or something inbuilt?

Thanks,
Jackson

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

Not units per say, but its a texture space value. Texture coordinates are generally expressed from 0 to 1, so the offset value more or less adds to those coordinates. Therefore a value of .5 would shift a texture half way over in that direction (u or v). What this actually relates to in real world space depends on how you have the your mapping sized.

For you guys, its probably best to just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure that there isn't an offset parameter in SU, so using it would most likely cause you're rendered mapping not to match the viewport.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

For you guys, its probably best to just leave it alone. I'm pretty sure that there isn't an offset parameter in SU, so using it would most likely cause you're rendered mapping not to match the viewport.

I didn't get where I am today by leaving things alone! LOL

Thanks for the info, I'm doing some experiments using 3 diffuse layers of the same texture with noise transparency maps to create procedural landscape materials, no wonder it wasn't working properly, I was inputting offset parameters of 100000+, thinking it was millimetres! LOL

By offsetting each diffuse layer I should be able to overcome repetitive features of the texture without having to create separate texture maps and now that I'm putting your info to good use I think I may be getting somewhere.

Thanks,
Jackson

[thomthom]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

Post some images of your research Jackson. I'd like to see how it ends up.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

Thom,

This is a brutal case of trial and error, I just can't get the noise parameters right so they counteract the repeating pattern. I'm getting there, but it's not there yet. If I'm ever satisfied I'll post a fresh thread.

Damien,

As you advised, the "offset" parameter doesn't actually seem to do anything, as the UV mapping in the final render appears to be identical to the SU viewport (which ironically is the opposite of what I'm trying to achieve). What's odd though is that the preview in VfSU's texture editor clearly displays the amount of offset that I've input. Like you say, I guess it's another SU shortcoming.

It's a little off-topic, but I've been using VfSU's noise function so much for these experiments that I'd love to understand the noise parameters better. Is there a link or tutorial somewhere which simply explains the functions? As far as my tests go, I can't see that the "ratio" functions do anything at all. Is the noise function scaled globally or is it relative to the texture's UV scale?

Thanks,
Jackson

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

For you guys, its probably best to just leave it alone.

I didn't get where I am today by leaving things alone! LOL

As you advised, the "offset" parameter doesn't actually seem to do anything, as the UV mapping in the final render appears to be identical to the SU viewport

See...I told you ;D

Chances are, we're just reading the texture coordinates directly from SU and not doing any post modifications other than repeats (which are much easier than offsets). SU doesn't really have an interface for texture coordinates other than reading them one by one in a fairly unordered fashion(if they're even there), so there's very little chance to make any modifications or to have more than a very local view of them.

As to the noise repeating, that's exactly what its supposed to do. Noise is just a formula with a few random values that is set up to repeat itself. Once the seed for the randomness is set, that will repeat till the cows come home.

With the values, chances are you're probably just using the standard noise which doesn't actually take use of some of those values. Perlin Noise will use almost all of them so that change alone might help. Beyond that, I can't really help you too much, as those are all just variables within the formula that creates the noise, and I have no idea exactly how that works.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

LOL, you can't blame me for trying! What's frustrating is that if you make an offset texture in Photoshop and use that as 2nd or 3rd diffuse layers then of course those layers are offset. It's seems logical enough (to my non-programmer brain) that if VfSU can read the UV coordinates at all, that it ought to be able to offset textures, just as if you'd done it outside the program... but then what seems "easy" and "logical" to civvies like me is the bain of programmer's lives! LOL

I know how noise functions work, I was referring to the repetition in the diffuse texture, which is what I'm using noise to counteract. I really wish the noise editor had a better preview function, it's very difficult to see what the final result will, I just end up doing trial and error, change value and render.... sloooooow. Do you know if it's scaled globally or relative to the texture UV scale?

Thanks again for the info,
Jackson

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

No, I can't blame you at all. Its human nature to want to fiddle...ten times more when you're told not to fiddle.

I don't know why the offset wouldn't be applied. I really think its just adding that offset value to the texture coordinates, so maybe it is that easy and its just slipped through the cracks. I'm convinced that with programmers things are either so easy they're practically done, or so hard they have no idea how long they would take. If its easy, they'll explain how its just one thing and they know exactly where it is...If its hard, then they'll tell you all of the related things that you didn't think of and that they'll probably have to do to possibly get that done if this one thing goes okay.

Noise should be applied within UV space, but within SU you'll have to have a dummy texture to set up UV space.

The preview function for pretty much everything sucks. Everything for an material parameters should update when something changes. This is hopefully going to change when the UI overhaul happens, possibly with a progressive render instead of the current IR process.

[thomthom]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

The offset does work.

Here's a set of renders to illustrate:

1.) Control - 1x1m face with a square texture tiled once


2.) With checker opacity - Offset: 0


3.) Checker opacity - Offset 0.25

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

This is hopefully going to change when the UI overhaul happens, possibly with a progressive render instead of the current IR process.

;D

Thom,

Yet again, nice work! I just ran another test and you're right, offset does work. It's weird that I wasn't seeing that, I think it's getting so confusing working with 2 different noise transparencies and 3 diffuse layers and a complex texture image, maybe I was seeing all the way through to the 3rd diffuse layer.

Back to experimenting, I think I'm going to have to edit my original texture a little, the repetition is just too obvious, even after noise filtering.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Texture Editor Offset Units?

Wow, this is doing my head in! The crux of the problem is that I can't work out how to make the noise function have very high contrast; there's way too much grey in it whereas I would like more solid black and white patches. Of course I've adjusted the amplitude, amplitude ratio and bias, but when you start pushing these values up you get a very strange "burn" effect, where the underlying textures become extremely bright, as though their multipliers have been pushed right up. Seems such a simple problem, but I just can't get the noise settings correct to counteract repetition in the textures.

Latest test image: fields texture is 1st diffuse layer, circle is 2nd, triangle 3rd.