Parsing, Components, and Workflow

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

Damien,

The toggle idea sounds good- seeing as you're planning to implement a multi-level GUI for beginners, experienced and expert users an option to activate more advanced VfSU features, but which requires a change in SU workflow seems a good solution.

Re: a popup warning- sounds ok as long as it has a "do not show this warning again" checkbox. It would be immensely irritating if every time I applied material to a component I got a VfSU warning popup.
If however you meant that a warning dialog would pop up only when you already have one component in the skp file, painted with one material and then you paint an identical instance with a different material, then that could be tolerable. I guess you mean the warning would also be a prompt along the lines of

You have applied different materials to identical components.
To parse correctly V-Ray for SketchUp will have to make them into
unique components which will be a permanent change.
[OK] [Cancel]

Snappy!

Yeah, I'm constantly surprised that it's usually just Thom and I sticking our heads in these topics, especially as I'm a relative newcomer to VfSU. I wonder if many advanced users are inspired by VfSU and then make the leap over to Rhino or 3DS for better modelling/texturing/animation support rather than dig around in the guts of SU for tweaks and workarounds? I'm in the process of learning Rhino and my new employer uses 3DS, but I'm pretty sure I'll be staying involved with SU and VfSU for a few years yet, especially as SU is the default CAD modeller for almost all architect firms.

[thomthom]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

You could try posting request for feedback on the other site you've created for ASGVis. Facebook, Twitter. Maybe they have higher visibility to active users than this forum.

[Solo75080]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

I'm very new with Vray so my requests may already be answered in current build, sorry if it is.

I would like to see a .vismat browser for when I want to select a material without having to blindly select one and use the update feature to view it. As for the update image of texture, any way to make it look like the actual texture?

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

Solo (from SCF?),

This topic is for discussing a specific issue relating to how VfSU parses SU components, for requests for features you're better off posting in the Wishlist forum to keep this on-topic.

Regards,
Jackson

[Solo75080]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

LOl yeah it's me.

Sorry mate, I followed a link from Thomthom at SCF (should have read before replying) I guess I will head to the wishing tree.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

LOL Thought it might be, welcome to the VfSU forums! Having seen you rocking the heck out of SU and Vue (I got into rendering via Vue too) hopefully you'll enjoy VfSU. Totally different workflow, couldn't be farther from Vue's excellent very graphic UI, but the overall intergrated-ness with SU, render quality and especially render times in VRay are pretty spectacular. It's also so nice to model 100% inside SU, even for inserting lights, emitters, etc and not worry about exporting back and forth. I still use Vue regularly to render out massive spherical skies to load in VRay's background slot, it's a great program.

LOL, now who's off-topic? :-[

[steelers05]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

Ok guys, sorry, i just got a break for school work and the chance to read through this, and I guess I didnt read too carefully, but im still confused on how this would change workflow? Are we saying that if we want to edit a "component material" that we will have to apply it to the original component and not just a random instance of the original component? Or are we saying that we wont be able to change the material of components after creating instances of it?

[thomthom]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

The question is, are you OK with V-Ray ignoring the material applied to the outside of groups and components and instead only read the materials of the actual geometry inside.
How vital is it to your workflow? How much compromise are you willing to give in order to get a parsing speed increase.

[40th]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

For me it would be OK if V-ray only read the materials of the actual geometry inside. Since i apply the material that way.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

Re: a popup warning- sounds ok as long as it has a "do not show this warning again" checkbox.

Absolutely. I can't tell you how annoying it is every time I import objs to Max...I could strangle the programmer who didn't put an "Apply to All" checkbox on there...and that's from Max 7 and still no change.

If however you meant that a warning dialog would pop up only when you already have one component in the skp file, painted with one material and then you paint an identical instance with a different material, then that could be tolerable.

At this point, I didn't really think of it that "granularly". I was thinking of more of a global, possibly per session thing, where you apply a mat to a component and if you say "Don't Show this Again", then it won't for the rest of that particular SU session.

This did get me thinking though. IF there was an "auto-make unique component" when you applied a mat on top of a component, then A) you really wouldn't have to worry about it much and B) if you happened to apply the same material to the same component again, rather than create another unique instance of the component, it could possibly be replaced with the instance that's already be created from that material. And really extending my thinking on this one, if we could keep track of which components were made unique through applying a mat on top of a component, there there could possibly be a tracking of the geometry modifications of the original component (or one of the instances), then update those geometry changes in the "unique" components while keeping the materials that they have applied. Although that sounds interesting to me, I also think that's really stretching the bounds of what could be possible, at least at the moment.

Yeah, I'm constantly surprised that it's usually just Thom and I sticking our heads in these topics, especially as I'm a relative newcomer to VfSU.

I'm actually not that surprised. When it comes to in depth, technical discussions on a forum, its generally something that happens between a relatively few people. It takes a lot to think about how something should or could work. Most people really only have comments about something when they can see it in action and play with it themselves. It is however, easier to get it to that point if you have some feedback initially about how to go about it.

I'm in the process of learning Rhino and my new employer uses 3DS, but I'm pretty sure I'll be staying involved with SU and VfSU for a few years yet, especially as SU is the default CAD modeller for almost all architect firms.

Congrats on the new gig.

[Pixero]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

I like the sound of the auto make unique idea. If that would help speed up parsing times.
Here's another idea.
Would it be possible to somehow store, perhaps in a file, the latest parsed render and when doing a new render check to see if only some material parameters or render settings have changed and that way save the time for parsing all geometry and stuff that hasnt changed? (Might be silly or impossible but still...)
I often have to make several test renders to find the right settings for the scene without modifying the geometry.
Maybe a checkbox with: "I havent touched anything outside Vray4SU please speed up parsing time".

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

The only problem with that is that in order to check that nothing has changed, we'd have to parse the scene, therefore throwing away the benefit. Monitoring for changes through SU is unreliable because its hit or miss when a given observer decides to tell us something or not.

There may be some changes in the next version that might allow for the use of external scene files, so in some sense, it may be possible to do what your suggesting, but it would require a much more explicit setup than us checking in the background.

[AcesHigh]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

my problems in this topic begun the moment someone used the word PARSING, which I have no idea what means.

Although I rarely paint different stances of the same component with different materials, it was mentioned somewhere that after making the component you wouldnt be able to repaint it again (even if you are painting all of them the same)?? If thats it... no way. After all, we must test different textures in a component. Like in a building for example, where you will use components to create one sheet of glass and paste it all over the building. Now, I didnt like the initial result and want to make it more greener... or blueish...


Isnt it possible to just have it "selectable"? "Oh, I never paint components in different colors". Great, select one option and VRAY will "parse" in one way, and it will be faster.

"Oh, but I like to paint components in different way". Nice, select another option, and VRAY will respect your workflow, althogh it will take longer to render.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

Although I rarely paint different stances of the same component with different materials, it was mentioned somewhere that after making the component you wouldnt be able to repaint it again (even if you are painting all of them the same)?? If thats it... no way. After all, we must test different textures in a component. Like in a building for example, where you will use components to create one sheet of glass and paste it all over the building. Now, I didnt like the initial result and want to make it more greener... or blueish...

Why wouldn't you just alter the material after in the SU and VfSU Material Editors? You can make as many changes as you like, colour, diffuse maps, bumpmaps after you've applied the material- it doesn't matter where, or to what the material is applied to, it will all "update" instantly in SU as you make the changes. I alter the colour, transparency, reflection and bump maps of glass in almost every model I work on I and I'm already working in a way which would be 100% compatible with Dalomar's proposal.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Parsing, Components, and Workflow

my problems in this topic begun the moment someone used the word PARSING, which I have no idea what means.

Parsing is how we actually read the geometry from SketchUp. That's the technical word for it and I don't really know what else to call it other than a half a sentence to describe it. If you didn't know what it meant, a quick search on the forum might have been helpful. Its possible to deduce from the posts that show up what parsing means

http://asgvis.com/index.php?option=c...action=search2

Anyway, it sounds like since you don't make any material modifications to individual components, then you'd be able to use this modified parsing structure would fit your workflow.

Isnt it possible to just have it "selectable"? "Oh, I never paint components in different colors". Great, select one option and VRAY will "parse" in one way, and it will be faster.

"Oh, but I like to paint components in different way". Nice, select another option, and VRAY will respect your workflow, althogh it will take longer to render.

Yes, this was mentioned previously as a way to prevent confusion (since the modified parsing scheme you lead to results that are not congruent with the viewport). It would be how it is now by default, and you would have to enable "faster parsing" yourself.