A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

[JHuman]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

I am using VIZ 2008, I really haven’t used 3DSMax enough or VIZ to notice any differences. Is the workflow still the pretty much the same, and will vray work with VIZ or do we need to upgrade?

[thomthom]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

Some interesting info for the 2010 subscribers: http://forums.sketchucation.com/view...p?f=80&t=20984

[steelers05]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

so this whole SU to max & vray workflow is sounding even more promising...hmmmmm

[steelers05]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

oh and thanks for the info thomthom

[Jackson_cg]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

Following this thread with interest. Sadly anyone wishing to make the leap from SU to 3DS Max will find it is exactly that- a leap.... a gigantic leap. My former employer used 3DS Max and insisted that I learn it- the job was short lived so I only got to grips with the very basics, but other than the horrendous unintuitive interface the thing that shocked me was just how bad a program it is. Every time I had to make basic edits to a model I'd come against error messages (don't ask me what they were, they were in 3DS Max-speak) caused by bad geometry (we're talking about very simple orthogonal boolean solids made in Autocad) and my 3DS Max colleagues' responses would be "Oh, it's probably better to edit that in Autocad and re-import it". Then I'd have to deal with Autocad's awful 3D modelling tools and all its pathetic solid geometry bugs. Colleagues' responses: "Yep, 3D in Autocad can be buggy sometimes, it's probably just quicker to model it again from scratch."... and these guys were 3DS Max/Acad fanboys! :

All in all, for animating, texturing, organic modelling and editing (especially the excellent soft selection function) 3DS Max does things SU can only dream of, but for pays-the-bills-day-to-day floors, walls and ceilings architectural modelling and design work I found it almost useless. Not remotely objective and plenty will disagree, but that's just my opinion based on my experience. Like many SU users, I'm an architect first, CAD modeller second and my architect's brain just doesn't work the way Autodesk seem to think it should, how selfish of me. If Google could keep the SU interface, but rewrite it from the ground up to provide high-poly support, modelling consistency, a timeline, much improved UV mapping and organic modelling tools I would never looks at 3DS Max again..... yeah, right, like that's ever going to happen. :P

As for Autodesk's prices and licensing, they should be prosecuted by the Monopolies Commission.

[nomeradona_cg]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

This is good to know a different workflow, especially if you have previously had success with it. Nomer, but does this method make it difficult for you to change materials if you wanted to, lets say, change a wood flooring material because your client does not like it. Since you already have it mapped from SU, would your workflow cause you to have to go back to SU? I ask, because I dont know about everyone else, but my office is constantly changing their minds on materials and such and it would be very difficult to not be able to make simple changes in max and have to revert back to SU for those sort of things.

actually you can cahnge the material in max.. since you apply the material and residing ind diffuse box, all you have to do is to cahnge the bitmap there.

[dcauldwell_cg]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

Jackson

On behalf of all the people who don't use 3ds max, can I offer you a great big thankyou.

Reading this thread, makes us 'non-3dsmax users' quite envious of all the magic things that can be done. You have now set the record straight and shown the other side of this software.
I know that using the industry standard will always give you an edge in certain aspects of presentation (high poly etc), but then you look at some of the great work shown on this and other sites using only SU and PS then I for one would be quite happy if I can reach those levels of achievement.

Thanks

David

[edonk]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

If Google could keep the SU interface, but rewrite it from the ground up to provide high-poly support, modelling consistency, a timeline, much improved UV mapping and organic modelling tools I would never looks at 3DS Max again..... yeah, right, like that's ever going to happen. :P

You've just described Sketchup Version 8! (plz God, plz God pllleeassseee1!!!!1111)

[steelers05]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

This was brought up a few posts ago by thomthom. I didnt search the site to see if there was video about it, but I found this youtube link that made me extremely happy last night. This may have several people looking more into this sort of workflow that we are currently talking about. I dont know about any of you, but this is the next best things I could here ....other than if SU would actually incorporate the things Jackson was mentioning.

Speaking of...The frustrating part about SU & I guess a driving force behind why many people are more and more interestred in this sort of workflow with max is that even if SU incorporates all these changes we have been so desperately asking for, I do not have much confidence in the "progressive" attitude of the developers. As I have been getting deeper & deeper into the 3D world, I have defenitaly realized that we all will constantly need something new and will never be content (I am 100% guilty of that) because we want to make our work better. We think that these few changes made by SU will keep us happy...it wont...because while SU is trying to catch up to programs like max, the others will just be moving further ahead with a group of developers that actually want to improve the program EVERY YEAR with new and advanced features(this is not a defense of autodesk and their pricing by any means). Considering all of this, many of us will try and use this workflow solution, because SU does feel a lot more intuitive and quicker (for most of us) at the modeling stage, but eventually feel constricted by many of the previously mentioned SU issues. Who knows, maybe for architectural Illustration needs, these few changes are all we need though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERYOl...x=0&playnext=1

[edonk]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

Interesting discussion.
Steeler, whats your primary reason for wanting Max in your workflow? Is it increased polygon support, better available vegetation and other high polygon entourage models? From reading similar threads, Max is quite a complex piece of kit and it would be a shame to have to purchase it just so you can import SU models into it. That Youtube link looks amazing, but I think there is more work involved than the video shows.
When @Last owned sketchup I really felt like they were moving things forward very fast and putting in a lot of time and effort into developing it. Once Google got their mits on it, it seems like things have come to a halt. Its a shame, because sketchup had the potential to rival Max, and with @Last at the helm I'm sure it would have. I'm not sure it will ever catch up now unless Google really move things forward faster than they are doing.

[thomthom]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

I don't think SU has even tried to "catch up" with 3D Studio Max. Remember its name SketchUp. It was made for quick conceptual modelling. It's the users that wants it to be more.

[40th]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

Thom I think You've touched the real SU's issue and it's the Scope of SU.
But I think that it would be smart and beneficial for Google to address the high demand of "reinforced" SU.
By making separated SU edition like they have the SU7 & SU7 PRO, to develop "SketchUP Extended".

P.s Very interesting post topic

[thomthom]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

I do hope that they will address the many requests of the users and improve SU's power.

At least, correct the existing bugs and provide better power for the Ruby plugins and let SU be a platform which users make SU fit their needs.

[edonk]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

I don't think SU has even tried to "catch up" with 3D Studio Max. Remember its name SketchUp. It was made for quick conceptual modelling. It's the users that wants it to be more.

Yes I agree with you entirely, it hasnt tried to catch up with Max, but I feel if @Last was still at the helm then version 7 would have seen a bigger improvement over 6. As it stands it was more of a 'patch' and not worth a couple of hundred notes to upgrade.
Google would have to be very short sighted to not develop SU a bit further, which pretty much means increased polygon support, maybe 64bit and maybe some organic tools.
Mind you after v7, I wont be holding my breath! I'm not wanting to go down the Max route at all, I'm also keeping a close eye on Modo.

[Jackson_cg]

Re: A Sketchup to 3ds max & Vray discussion

The sad truth is Google HQ couldn't give two hoots about adding functionality to SU. They bought it for one reason and one reason only- for hobbyists to populate Google Earth with ultra-low-poly boxes with projected low-quality facade textures stuck on them. That there was any added functionality in SU7 at all was a bonus; what a shame it had to be worthless "dynamic components" instead of something people actually wanted. Contrary to what one might expect when a multinational giant like Google buys out a tiny developer I imagine the budget allocated for developing SU is now a mere fraction of what it was when @last were independant. There's no doubt in my mind that SU today would be a far superior product if @last had been able to hold onto it and probably more than capable of giving other high-end modelling packages a run for their money.

We can only hope that Google HQ get bored with SU soon, decide it's not worth them developing it further and in a final "Don't be evil" gesture make it open source so the great and the good can do what needs to be done to make it a 3D contender again.