.vrscene imports scale problem

[milos_moravac]

Hi guys,
I noticed that .vrscene files that I import are always scaled 2.54 times, so 1 inch: 1 cm. I'm importing it from 3ds Max. I tried changing units in both Max and SketchUp, but it's always scaled like that. Is there something I'm missing, can I get it to be the same size when imported? It would be good to include some "pick units" menu when exporting and importing so we could control scaling ourselves.

[konstantin_chaos]

Hi milos_moravac,

At the moment the vrscene importer doesn't have an option to do auto-unit conversion.
This is something that we should think about implementing in V-Ray as a whole (not only in SketchUp).

Changing the units in 3ds Max will not help since the scene size doesn't actually change when you do so (Centemeters 100cm = Meters 100m after you change the units).
This means that if you want to export your scene with different size from Max you'd have to actually scale it.

You should also consider that internally V-Ray uses meter as 1 unit of measure.
This means that even if you work in 'cm' in Max and you export an object 100cm high you'll see 1in object imported in SketchUp.
What I usually do to work around that is to import a vrscene/vrmesh in SU and then scale it up by a factor of 39.3701.
This should give you the correct size.

We will surely look into ways to improve this workflow in the future.

Regards,
Konstantin

[milos_moravac]

I just did a quick experiment to check. I made a box 100x100x100 cm, and it turned out to be 254x254x254 in sketchup. Then changed the file units in max, made 1x1x1 m, then again imported in sketchup, and it turned out to be 2.54x2.54x2.54 m. There might be something more to this, but it looks like it's 1cm in max = 1 inch in sketchup. I'll just remember 2.54, 39.3701, 0.393701, 100, 0.01 as important numbers and check what happens as I go.
Thanks for all your hard work so far.

[Peter.Chaushev]

As Konstantin mentioned, there is no auto-conversion of units in the vrscene.
The only way to actually have proper unit scaling straight away is if your 3ds max project's system unit is equal to 1 inch since SketchUp, despite giving the option to change its display units, internally always works in inches.

Kind regards,
Peter

[denmuk]

Hi milos_moravac,

At the moment the vrscene importer doesn't have an option to do auto-unit conversion.
This is something that we should think about implementing in V-Ray as a whole (not only in SketchUp).

Changing the units in 3ds Max will not help since the scene size doesn't actually change when you do so (Centemeters 100cm = Meters 100m after you change the units).
This means that if you want to export your scene with different size from Max you'd have to actually scale it.

You should also consider that internally V-Ray uses meter as 1 unit of measure.
This means that even if you work in 'cm' in Max and you export an object 100cm high you'll see 1in object imported in SketchUp.
What I usually do to work around that is to import a vrscene/vrmesh in SU and then scale it up by a factor of 39.3701.
This should give you the correct size.

We will surely look into ways to improve this workflow in the future.

Regards,
Konstantin

Hi Konstantin

Is there any change or work around for this issue because in vray next, the same problem persits in scaling problems from max to sketchup using vrscene. In the image attached, the image on the left is an imported vrswene file imported using the Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene and the one on the right was imported using File>Import and the reults are very different using the deafult settings. Using the file>import dialogue, i notice that the textures and uv mapping are set but they somehow get lost and are not applied compared to using the extensions dialoge box.

I would really appreciate help on this.

Am using vray next for both skecthup and 3ds max, I mage is here below

[konstantin_chaos]

Hi denmuk,

The difference that you're showing here is expected.

The Proxy Scene (vrscene) asset is something supported at a lower level in the V-Ray Core.
In the SU integration we just give it a file and it handles the rest.
Unfortunately the scene units are ignored.
I will report/submit an improvement request for this and there is a good chance that it'll eventually be done.

The File/Import function on the other hand is something that we have full control over.
We did our best to support the unit scaling and objects should get imported with proper size.
If you see any issues with objects imported via the file function, please let us know and we'll fix that as soon as possible.

Regards,
Konstantin

[denmuk]

Hi Konstatin

Case 1

I am still trying to figure out "the "procedural method" how to rescale my scene space in 3ds max to actually be in inches as Peter Chausev alluded to in his earlier post that if you can get the system scene units(model space) in 3ds max to be in inches, then in sketchup, when importing vrscene, it actully does scale properly... sadly though, when opening the first few models in 3ds max i would be prompted to change model unit to system units or keep model units and each time i chose to scale to system units, the vrscene will be exported and imported with proper scaling into skecthup.

Now i am not getting the prompt anymore and am no longer sure if the model spacewill be exported in inches anymore because i have no idea what units 3ds max will currently be using


Case 2

Imorting model using Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene, results in proper textures and reflections etc ( one would need to contend with getting the scaling correct as in Case 1 above. on the flipside if i use The File/Import function in sketchup.... the geometry imports fine but i lose reflections, and other textures.





in the image above... on the left is the same vrscene imported via file/import (impoprt with default settings) and on the right is the Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene.... Notice in the image below is the differences when i render....




1 - Liquid texture is different
2 - The spoon does not appear metallic anymore
3 - The reflection is not showing
4 - Reflection not showing too


Am using V-ray for sketchup 4.10.02

Your assistece would be great

Thanks lot

[summerson1990]

Hi Konstatin

Case 1

I am still trying to figure out "the "procedural method" how to rescale my scene space in 3ds max to actually be in inches as Peter Chausev alluded to in his earlier post that if you can get the system scene units(model space) in 3ds max to be in inches, then in sketchup, when importing vrscene, it actully does scale properly... sadly though, when opening the first few models in 3ds max i would be prompted to change model unit to system units or keep model units and each time i chose to scale to system units, the vrscene will be exported and imported with proper scaling into skecthup.

Now i am not getting the prompt anymore and am no longer sure if the model spacewill be exported in inches anymore because i have no idea what units 3ds max will currently be using


Case 2

Imorting model using Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene, results in proper textures and reflections etc ( one would need to contend with getting the scaling correct as in Case 1 above. on the flipside if i use The File/Import function in sketchup.... the geometry imports fine but i lose reflections, and other textures.





in the image above... on the left is the same vrscene imported via file/import (impoprt with default settings) and on the right is the Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene.... Notice in the image below is the differences when i render....




1 - Liquid texture is different
2 - The spoon does not appear metallic anymore
3 - The reflection is not showing
4 - Reflection not showing too


Am using V-ray for sketchup 4.10.02

Your assistece would be great

Thanks lot

Look my post here about scaling https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...s-for-each-one

[konstantin_chaos]

Hi denmuk,

Case1:

I am still trying to figure out "the "procedural method" how to rescale my scene space in 3ds max to actually be in inches as Peter Chausev alluded to in his earlier post that if you can get the system scene units(model space) in 3ds max to be in inches, then in sketchup, when importing vrscene, it actully does scale properly... sadly though, when opening the first few models in 3ds max i would be prompted to change model unit to system units or keep model units and each time i chose to scale to system units, the vrscene will be exported and imported with proper scaling into skecthup.

In order to export properly scaled models from Max you should just set the System Unit Setup / 1 Unit to equal 1inch.
The display unit is not important since it only changes the UI values.

Once you load a file after that Max will give you 2 options - Adopt and Rescale.
The reason is that the System Unit is also stored in the Max file and on Open Max will realize that the file unit is different than the current one.
If the 2 match you'll not see the message.

The safest thing to do is the following:
- Make sure that the current System Unit is 1 inch (this persists between sessions)
- Open any file
- If the file unit is saved as 1 inch no prompt will appear - the file is ready for export
- If the file unit is different just select - Rescale ...
- The file is now ready for export

Case2:

Imorting model using Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene, results in proper textures and reflections etc ( one would need to contend with getting the scaling correct as in Case 1 above. on the flipside if i use The File/Import function in sketchup.... the geometry imports fine but i lose reflections, and other textures.
in the image above... on the left is the same vrscene imported via file/import (impoprt with default settings) and on the right is the Extensions>Vray>vray objects>Import vray scene.... Notice in the image below is the differences when i render....

The 2 methods of importing are completely different - each one with it's pros and cons:

Proxy Scene (reference) - In this case V-Ray is referencing the .vrscene file.
The viewport mesh is just a preview.
Once you render - then the real objects and material are loaded from the file.
No changes can be done to the contents - this is just a reference.
Additionally, if the vrscene file is deleted - the objects will also disappear from your render.

File / Import - This method imports the actual meshes in the SU project.
It virtually converts the vrscene to a skp model and loads it.
After its done you no longer need the vrscene file on disk.
The newly created model can be edited using the native SU tools.
Unfortunately we still don't import the preexisting Max materials.
This is quite a complicated task - still something we'll support at one point.
In the current implementation, simple materials will replace the original ones.
Diffuse textures are imported but all other material properties will be lost.
The checker that appears on some materials is there to preserve UV coordinates of meshes that did not use a textured material in 3ds max.

I hope this information helps.
Regards,
Konstantin

[denmuk]

Look my post here about scaling https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/...s-for-each-one

Thank you, quite helpful

[denmuk]

Hi denmuk,

Case1:


In order to export properly scaled models from Max you should just set the System Unit Setup / 1 Unit to equal 1inch.
The display unit is not important since it only changes the UI values.

Once you load a file after that Max will give you 2 options - Adopt and Rescale.
The reason is that the System Unit is also stored in the Max file and on Open Max will realize that the file unit is different than the current one.
If the 2 match you'll not see the message.

The safest thing to do is the following:
- Make sure that the current System Unit is 1 inch (this persists between sessions)
- Open any file
- If the file unit is saved as 1 inch no prompt will appear - the file is ready for export
- If the file unit is different just select - Rescale ...
- The file is now ready for export

Case2:


The 2 methods of importing are completely different - each one with it's pros and cons:

Proxy Scene (reference) - In this case V-Ray is referencing the .vrscene file.
The viewport mesh is just a preview.
Once you render - then the real objects and material are loaded from the file.
No changes can be done to the contents - this is just a reference.
Additionally, if the vrscene file is deleted - the objects will also disappear from your render.

File / Import - This method imports the actual meshes in the SU project.
It virtually converts the vrscene to a skp model and loads it.
After its done you no longer need the vrscene file on disk.
The newly created model can be edited using the native SU tools.
Unfortunately we still don't import the preexisting Max materials.
This is quite a complicated task - still something we'll support at one point.
In the current implementation, simple materials will replace the original ones.
Diffuse textures are imported but all other material properties will be lost.
The checker that appears on some materials is there to preserve UV coordinates of meshes that did not use a textured material in 3ds max.

I hope this information helps.
Regards,
Konstantin

This was the most clear and concise response, well the tutorial ont he Chaogroup youtube channel was bit misleading becaus ethey import a vrscene from max and the materials are alreeady mapped correct using the file/import method. So my understaing was that vray for sketchup will be able to translate the 3dsmax materials and placements accordingly in sketchup..