wow, that rant was thorough; i guess i’m not even close to 100% efficient in terms of modelling or even drafting in CAD…oh well. I agree about the lack of good architectural modelling tutorials for MAX. I’m sure if you could model a creature you could certainly handle most architectural spaces (gehry aside,) but it’s the precision that none of the tutorials I have found ever seem to offer. I know I’m extremely unexperienced with modelling in MAX/VIZ, but the snaps have been almost useless for me (at least compared to the ease of those in CAD.) If MAX could somehow include the ability to draw accurate and quickly made (sp)lines, then I’d be all over spending as much time as I could modelling in it.
When I import my CAD model into MAX (all “solids”) doesn’t MAX simply convert it to a bunch of Editable Polygons? It doesn’t seem to create useless extra geometry, so what is the downside to first modelling the static shell in CAD and THEN chamferring edges and adding entourage in MAX/VIZ?
What I think is interesting is that those who only model architecture in Acad prefer Acad, and Acad veterans who switched to modeling architecture in Max prefer Max. I have never heard of anyone who used to model architecture in Max that switched to Acad.
CAD is perfect and much faster when it comes to precise modelling of 2D shapes. You know all that “russian” type of interiors, ceiling cornices, etc.
on the other side, when it comes to poly modelling (MeshSmoothes involved), MAX is the one. Not to mention all the little fillet/chamfers needed for high details and highlights etc. CAD can be a horrour when it comes to this.
As for the precise ARCH modelling , there is no problem at all doing it all in MAX, especially for interiors. One can modell with 1 millimeter accurancy.
If it comes to exterior, well that depends a lot on the 2D (DWG drafts). If they are good enough (precise I mean) then it is also very quick doing the whole building with no problem in time vs CAD.
As I said, it’s all up to the technics one uses.
P.S.: My experience:
I did both ways, and I bet my 2 cents for MAX. I feel much faster there.
What I think is interesting is that those who only model architecture in Acad prefer Acad, and Acad veterans who switched to modeling architecture in Max prefer Max. I have never heard of anyone who used to model architecture in Max that switched to Acad.
I think you just won me over with that point. I know I can continue to do as well as I am right now by sticking with CAD, but I really haven’t heard anyone who has started modelling in CAD and then becoming good at modelling in MAX switching back to CAD.
ditto
absolutelly!
i did model extesively in CAD and MAX was for me exactly as described before, a unprecise tool for architectural use. As i gain experience i started to realise the capabilities of MAX and after i saw so many architectural stuff done in MAX i just decided to jump in that boat too! and i can tell u i feel very happy with that decision. though sometimes in i tight schedule job i use mixed thecniches to get the job done in time due of course to my lack of knowledge rather than to a MAX limitation :lol:
on top of that i can get scenes done precise and much faster as i lost the bad CAD/architect habbit to model EVERYTHING…8)
having that said i say stick to whatever u feel confortable with and gets ur work done!if u decide to switch dont expect it to be a jolyride!u have to loose a lot of tricks an (bad)habbits!
So how does one learn how to model “Buildings” in Max? Like many here I can very quickly (maybe not relative to modeling in Max) model a building, interior, etc. and to jump over to max would be a completely unacceptable drop in production speed. I realize there’s some learning curve/downtime in learning a new workflow but the transition would be a little harsh. It’s not like switching from scanline to VRay - to me it’s more like switching from AutoCAD to Illustrator . Yes they’re both vector based drawing programs but the similarities kind of end there. For example, if someone told you to draw marketing plans (i.e colored spaces, poche’d walls, fancy text) the normal workflow would be to draw the plans in CAD, export to Illustrator (or photoshop) and add the color and text. Drawing the plans in illustrator from the get go would be absolutely ludicrous. It’s a stretch for a comparison but I think it has some validity to it. So back to the question, where/how/when do you switch to max for your modeling? Am I beyond help at this point since I have so much acad under my belt (~16 years)?
So back to the question, where/how/when do you switch to max for your modeling? Am I beyond help at this point since I have so much acad under my belt (~16 years)?
The easiest way is to uninstall your CAD on the workstation, so you can’t get seduced back… and leave only MAX. That’s how a friend of mine did
So, either you want it or not, you have to model all in MAX. It hurts a lot, like trying to quit smoking, but in some time you can realize the coffee has different taste without a cigarette. just IMO.
I think a better analogy would be switching from Acad to Vectorworks, or maybe Acad to Microstation. Though I despise Microstation, it is just as accurate and powerful in 2d as is Acad. I think the same analogy applies in 3d from Acad to Max. With Max’s grid, user-grids, snaps and coordinate input dialogs, you can be equally precise as Acad.
i started modelling in max after chatting with clifton santiago last pub meet nearly a month ago. i’m 35 and have been doing 2d/3d in autocad since 1999. i can program it inside out and hit those one key commands faster than i can think.
after doing two projects in max though i would have to say that max is better (wash my mouth out). it’s hard giving up the autocad habit. some things take a while how to learn how to model quickly but other things model so quickly you wonder why you ever bothered with autocad.
Hey, as someone who just upgraded from Viz to Max, and also just dropped way way too much money on a very nice Boxx system, I’m all for being able to do as much as possible in Max. Like the thread starter stated, I’m always looking for good beginner-intermediate tutorials that will increase my efficiency and quality of work in Max.
That all being said, I think the major distinction to be drawn here is the difference between a full time modeler, and an architect who wants to model as a development and presentation tool.
I agree, that the only way to be very skilled in Max would be ‘full immersion’, not relying on acad. But that would make no sense to a working architect like myself, who is still developing working drawings parallel to a model.
I realize many of you are given a “finished” set of cad drawings, import them into max, trace your splines and go from there. But I’m still spending 8+ hours a day drawing those plans/sections/elevations, and changing them inevitably, then modeling a couple hours at night. So, whether I like it or not, acad will remain my native graphical interface.
Its really too bad that I’ve never found a seminar or class where an Acad and Max guru could let us literally watch over their shoulder to see how they model/work in Max. The translation of workflow would be very informative to me.
humm…
i remember Natty promissed something like that (a speed modeling video) a long time ago and i think either i missed it or he s owing us that one!
:lol:
This is a great thread. I’ve been modeling in FormZ for 13 years and in MegaModel 7 years before that. I don’t know too many people who can model architectural spaces faster than I can. However, I’m not so stuck in my ways that I can’t make a change if something is better than what I currently use. I’ve recently decided to take another crack at learning to model in Max. But based on prior attempts, I know it is going to be painful. Any words of wisdom or encouragement to get me through the dark times ahead would be appreciated.
Ok, lets throw Revit into this discussion. I use it for building. I can design a fancy window once and just click on walls to place it. How would you accomplish this is Max? Or what about a door? Etc…
I would love to be able to model totally in Max, but I think it would take too much time to do the things I can do in Revit very quickly. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to overcome this?
Well, as you probably do in those other packages, bring in the 2d cad drawing(s). Use the line command in conjunction 2.5d snaps to “trace” the drawings and start extruding upwards from plan. You may discover in certain places its better to trace off an elevation (like a facade with multiple openings). Avoid using 3d boolean operations (i.e. Complex object, Boolean or ProBoolean) except as a last resort. Eventually you can start setting up user grids (equivalent of Acad UCS) to quickly model orthogonal geometry that is shifted from the world grid. Or you can model things and align them to shifted geometries using the normal align. Eventually you will be comfortable using a variety of methods, spline “skinning”, NURBS, poly modeling, lofts, etc. I have a friend that used to model all his architecture with Max NURBS!
good discussion. now all we need to do is talk about cad vs. max while using LWF…just kidding :lol:
I guess for me if the project is mostly organic it gets done in max, if its mostly orthogonal, I gotta go with cad.
What are the disadvantages of using booleans?..most of my meshes are created this way. There is a noticable difference in my acad meshes in that the polys are mostly triangles and alot of the triangles share a common vertex. It only looks odd in wireframe though. I’ve never had problems when rendering…you’d think light leaks would be more common but I get nothing like that.
Revit is pretty sweet. I like how intuitive it is. Like if you modify something everything associated with it updates accordingly. Has anyone used inventor? Often our cases involve detailed complex man made objects. I was looking at the demo and it looks pretty impressive…not sure if its worth $5,200 though.
-joe
Well, I’ve just found that say, when adding voids to an object, such as an opening in a facade, its better in the long run to keep adding closed splines to project the void because its a non-destructive process. If the facade is already a mesh, instead of an extruded spline, you have to perform a boolean subtraction for each window you might add. Eventually it can lead to problems with the mesh, missing faces or flipped normals.
