pitch project.. hope cilent will like it

[Frieder]

I would be interrested for the details of the company too. Our company is locating here in South Germany and this offer sounds not like reputable one. Best wishes for your next job with a hopefully appropriate payment.

[prateekvishwa]

This company is very secretive.. i searched for them on Google, both for their email & website.. no traces unless you type their website address in browser. I will wait for my payment next 14 days after which i will definitely post all there contact & web address, If fraud, may be this information can save other for falling prey.. @Frieder- thanks but i may not work on next project bcoz 250 usd is too less to even think of.. @nlo- Yes i agree quality can be improved but as i said this is just 6 hours job (start to end) so i did all wht i managed to. in that short span..

[pixela]

I hope you can receive your money.
Their mail looks unprofessional to me though.

[Morne]

sounds very much like a scam. 1st hint of a problem is no contact details besides some weird email address. Worst one I got before was from some guy with no name and some weird email address. Couple of sketchup image grabs of some HUGE development. His email only said: "We are a large company and need an animation of the attached project in 1 month. Please quote"
that was it
no further details
At least they didnt tell me to do it and they "will pay in a month"

in any case $250 for an image is WAY too low.

[flino2004]

Let's be realistic too, companies that look for renderings in India or China want to pay 1/10th so $250 would be what they expect to pay....for Prateek Vishwa is an small amount because He has legal software but 99% of the companies in those contries don't use legal applications.....I have to charge what I have to charge because I spend thousands of dollars in Software, libraries, subscriptions, hardware,etc every year like the most part of the people here...for $250 I prefer watching TV and scratching my balls like Al Bundy.

[lukx]

Let's be realistic too, companies that look for renderings in India or China want to pay 1/10th so $250 would be what they expect to pay....for Prateek Vishwa is an small amount because He has legal software but 99% of the companies in those contries don't use legal applications.....I have to charge what I have to charge because I spend thousands of dollars in Software, libraries, subscriptions, hardware,etc every year like the most part of the people here...for $250 I prefer watching TV and scratching my balls like Al Bundy.

you think ... I have same opinion as you and I shared it on cgtalk recently... and people almost tore me apart there (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...?f=2&t=1000745). the cost of living in those countries is supposed to be so low and they have so much help form government to buy software that we are doomed... time to pack and move

[prateekvishwa]

you think ... I have same opinion as you and I shared it on cgtalk recently... and people almost tore me apart there (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...?f=2&t=1000745). the cost of living in those countries is supposed to be so low and they have so much help form government to buy software that we are doomed... time to pack and move

I dont know about other countries, but in India, specially in Mumbai, cost of living is not so low, even to get a small 200 sqft unfurnished office space i need to pay atleast $1250/month as rent in a decent locality. other expenses extra, Piracy i think is main reason for rates going down in this industry.

I 100% agree with what bobby said few months ago regarding same--

"" {Quote Originally Posted by prateekvishwa View Post
I personally think we should give output based on client budget rather thn giving our best all the time irrespective of their budget..}
I struggle with this concept; there has to be times that we just say no to work if it compromises our quality. Ford makes Fords and Mercedes makes Mercedes, there is a market for both and both probably make the same profit at the end of the day. You see far more Fords than you see Mercedes, but the Mercedes is far nicer and more expensive.

The States are really cracking down on pirate sites so I see light and the end of the tunnel. Software companies will continue to make better software and you'll start to see far fewer people getting access to illegal software. The people who pay for their software will have access to the newest technology. I see a day when we rent software and everything is ran from the software developers cloud servers.

Today anyone can freelance because there isn't an investment in software, everything is stolen. I have about $50,000.00 invested in software to do what I do an I spend about $1,000.00 a month adding to my arsenal. Things will change when someone has to invest $50,000.00 to get started, which is still small potatoes for most start-ups, but will weed out the fly-by-night people.

Last edited by glorybound; 02-24-2011 at 11:28 PM.

In Christ,
Bobby W Parker
3D Architectural Illustrator""

[lukx]

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.c...h-we-live.html

I am coming to a serious decision in my life....I'm getting ready to possibly leave the country I love (maybe for good) so i can find a new job. That's how tough times have become.

I had two heart attacks by the age of 37 in this business. I got caught working 100 hour weeks on some summer blockbuster. On the 75th straight day of work (mandatory 7 day weeks/7 hour days) I fell asleep at the wheel and did two 360's on the 10 freeway hitting 3 people. That was my only day off. I didn't mind at the time I was making like $1000 a day.

The real problem occured after 3 months. I never looked in the mirror. With all the catered breakfast, lunchs and dinners, 12-15 hour days, I had shot up to 290lbs (I was 200 when i started the job). THats 90lbs in 3 months. Too many breakfast burritos.....and I smoked 2 packs a day....and drinking tons of coffee.......They took me to the hospital with chest pains around 120 days.

The nurse in the ER didn't believe I was having a heart attack..."What? How old are you, 37? Thats too young...". The blood pressure cuff read 235/120.....She didn't beleive me until I started having nausea after telling her my arms were numb....I threw up in her lap. I was 238/125 now.........and ticking........ They first gave me a green sauce (which is what it looked like). They explained to me it was to freeze my esophogus....Just to make sure that it wasn't indegestion. The pain continued....

What is worse, you get so helpless. Literally, you're lying on your own slab and unable to move. You see their lips moving, but can't hear what they are saying. They asked me "Sir are you on methamphetamines? Do you smoke crack?" They thought I was a junkie....and it's the part in the movie where it goes all slow motion. I'm having a heart attack and the ER doctors think I'm on coke. It's true I hadn't had a physical since I was 18.....and I was uninsured......It was called "Defensive Medicine" designed to prevent me from suing them........ But could 90 hour weeks cause this? Unfortunately, the doctors never met an overworked VFX worker.

I waited in pain almost 4 hours...as they watched me have a heart attack.....they waited 'til the blood panels came back negative for ANY drugs. Finally that convinced them I was not a drug addict like they anticpated and I was indeed having a heart attack....... My blood pressure went up so high that it crushed my heart.....'til I wound up in these fools hands. Next thing I know they are shoving up a wired camera up my wazoo. In laymen's terms: they inserted a wire with a camera in my crotch....a femoral artery ...past my balls, my stomach into my heart. .......you have to be concious for the whole procedure. It's part camera and part claw.....if the camera sees something, the claw rips it out......

There I am on a cold steel table with a camera in my most important aterery......The guys were telling jokes.....(most of the techs looked like they were under 27). The guy with the device now inside my heart......I watched as they inserted radioactive dye into ....or what looked like my own heart...on TV. They all laughed about getting laid at tonights parties.....It was Halloween in Los Angeles.....and you would shit your self at what LA hosptial i was in. Not many men get to see their own heart beating before there eyes...unless it was in a Quentin Terantino movie. Because i had no insurance, that night, they placed me in a room with a woman who was in the last days of her life (...in a nasty state of dementia).....she couldn't sleep and she screamed all night because she was in agony........I'm thinking here I am...they can't save me and they can't kill her......stuck here in the middle with you.......I was in the movie Jacobs Ladder ....... no, alas, the American medical system.....isn't this the best medical system in the world?.....well maybe for some people......I suddenly realized I was not them.......

I was in between health coverages....and now I am uninsurable.

I lost like 40 lbs and went back to work. On the next summer blockbuster I had my second heart attack......and I was back at work 5 days later. Out of the hospital on friday back at work on monday. I could tell NO ONE about my condition with out the fear of being fired. I have since lost about 70 lbs and have my condition under control.....all though forced OT jacks my blood pressure up. The company where my first heart attack occured, they politely refused to hire me back.

Years later I went back to.....that fateful company. No pipeline......absolute chaos....and high end assets hit their plate. They call me in to save the day..........immediately into OT. I forgot my medication and I wasn't feeling good so I told the coordinator I needed to leave for the night and was unable to work OT.

She was like "Sure! we are all about safety!"...she went on...."In fact a couple years ago we had an VFX artist get hospitalized from a heart attack." I was like, "Laura.....that was ME....".....you almost kill yourself for a company...... and then they dont even remember you. That company later went bankrupt ... owing me close to $10,000 in back pay.

With worker productivity being the highest in the world, why would you outsource away from workers like myself who would literally kill them selves for a job?

Answer: You can get someone who will kill themselves for $15 a day in some other country. The Indians and the Chinese will have their OT and have their heart attacks too.....they will have their mortgages....and their wives that wonder why they don't see them any more....and have kids that wonder were there dad is.....their sister will have cancer and they need to miss work without being fired............or they realize they are us........but realize they sold their soul for less money.

Your facts about the AMPTP don't scare me.....That the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers have sold out 10,000 + American workers so they can employ slave labor. Its not scary.............its worse for me...

I'm a 40-year-old, shit-kicking VFX artist, who has no health care in a job that is literally killing me......I'm the lowest you can go..........I have nothing to lose.

I've got a ton more horror stories. I've also retained a lot of the knowledge from being in bed with snakes. Things like mark ups and how much studios are really making.....and accounting practices....

If we can educate the ****ing Gnomon kids on how much people are making off their asses.......we could shake the community if we do one simple thing...let everyone know what everyone is making......if we can take the glamour off the most unglamourous business.....

Unions? I don't think we can get one.....but that doesn't mean we can't stop outsourcing......My goal is to simply remind everyone that this is a business..and no one gives a **** if you worked on Lord of the Rings ...or you worked with Dykstra.......or you were on Star Wars ......it's not about hacking it in shitty pipelines either.....we are really gifted individuals and we deserve some respect for what we do.

I had a buddy who was at ILM. He was walking to the parking lot.....when the EP of ILM and Geroge Lucas were walking by. Lucas was super pissed off and was talking loudly. (Keep in mind, this is a true story.) My friend overheard George Lucas say ..."You know what the problem with this business is? Look at this parking lot.....too many BMWs".

Excuse me??!!!....but I didn't see George do all the concept drawings or pour the glue on the minatures...nor get behind the camera or do the stunts. A lot of people went in to making him look like a genius. And now ILM is part singapore.......I'm sure the stinking Force was too strong there. No? George?

If we could just tell people our heroes are not who we think they are......

[Neilg]

Thats such a harrowing read.

I think my plan is to skirt round the outsides of that.

[lukx]

truth is painful. to bad no one informed me about it 7 years ago when I deiced to go CGI path

[flino2004]

I agreed with Prateek Vishwa about Piracy...but even Mumbai is more expensive than others part in India....oursourcing stuff overseas means paying less money no matter where in India or China somebody live, it's a fact!!!
Multimillionars are in these two countries (a lot of them) but It's the market to pay less.
About the example of Fords and Mercedes, the it's realtive where you live....Quality could be relative for clients, I've seen crappy stuff and the client love them but it's market for your quality and you have to put your own value on it....some people will pay it some people won't pay your price so they won't be your clients....that is it!!.. so you would see more Fords than Mercedes only in USA, maybe Canada and Mexico but if you go to South America or Europe and hardly ever you see a Ford so quality/price is relative

Fernando

[BBB3]

Lukx, In the case of your guy, although it is a harrowing read, I would probably blame the two packs a day and the rapid weight gain for the heart attacks more than the job. We all react differently to stress but I've seen many people do long hours and thrive as long as they keep to a reasonably healthy lifestyle. Not trying to relativise or lecture but I think our plight is no different from that of many people in what we must admit are rather low-skill industries with virtually no barriers to entry. Just trying to put things in perspective.
I very much think the solution is to go for the Mercedes end of the market. You can't win in this space if you go for scale - there just aren't enough hours in the day and there will always be people who operate with lower costs than you do. Better to go for quality, raise your profile and get the higher profit margin. You may find yourself turning down more jobs than you accept (however painful it may feel at first) but you'll be just as well off at the end of the day and live a better life.

[prateekvishwa]

Better to go for quality, raise your profile and get the higher profit margin. You may find yourself turning down more jobs than you accept (however painful it may feel at first) but you'll be just as well off at the end of the day and live a better life.

As a freelancer i dont think it is easy to get such clients, most of them are bothered with price, If at all they have big budget they will go for bigger agencies rather then freelancers.. atleast this is the case here in India, Regarding Lukx post, i agree there is lot of exploitation.. Recently i was told by one of my friend in IT field that many such incidents are happening on internet. they(probably a group of 2or3 people) will make nexus of people like me who are willing to grow, then they will pitch for projects in local areas for a much lower price( i.e. if one cgi image costs $2500 they will agree to do in $1500) & then passon this job to their nexus may be in $150 or $250. they not paying any advance, & they giving this job to may be 10 people at a time.. wow now at the end they have 10 images of same project from 10 different people.. after selecting the best they will give it to their client & may be at the end they will pay 150 or 250 to their chosen freelancer.. like this more then $1000 straight away coming to their pocket by doing nothing! & they are safe as they are not investing any money any where!.. & everyone know over internet there are lot of people ready to work at dirt cheap.. i think unfortunately i have fallen prey to one such group.. ... Lukx your story is harrowing... i realized long time back that our efforts are never considered by our bosses, they will not think twice before sacking us which is why i have chosen to do on my own.. atleast only i will be responsible for what ever will happen with me in my career..

[lukx]

I just want to make sure no one is taking the story I posted as mine . I'm not this guy I'm working out in the gym everyday twice a day. And I did it even when I wasn't starving freelancer and was working in the office. hmmm maybe I should start working as personal trainer and than will start making money

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

i have to agree with Bertrand.
Quality is the way for sure.
Focusing on archviz ONLY is also a path to cash flow problems.

The whole situation is VERY sad....its even more sad that forums such as EVERMOTION indirectly and unintentionally supports software piracy allowing their users present and discuss their artwork, solve problems etc. I seriously doubt that majority of users there actually have the software legally acquired. The amount of knowledge shared on the net leads to overflow of 3D capable people.
Or am i mistaken? you really think that its possible fort an 18 old chinese guy to have MAX, MUDBOX, ZBRUSH, NUKE etc??? Bullshit...........THESE FORUMS SHOULD BE CONTROLLED!!!! or at least they shoudl be harvested by the SW vendors for pirate contacts.........its just not happening for some reason :////

Its also a shame that agencies all over the world support these pirates in the east giving them jobs in order to save money.

This used to be a good industry...now its very corrupted....especially in the freelance world.

Just my 2 cents....did not want to insult anyone (not even the Evermotion guys)