pitch project.. hope cilent will like it

[EricCamper]

I just downloaded vray 6.0 from bit torrent... seems legit to me.

I was actually talking to a client that owed us money the other day... I say "owed" because he finally paid me for my foot brush model I did... He has been sending all of his stuff overseas for a couple of other products I was SUPPOSE to do, but he told me I was just too expensive... But then he backtracked... I am not expensive, they are just WAY too cheap... I explained the piracy thing and he basically said he didnt care... We are talking I did a job for 2800 and he can get it done for under 400... He showed me a couple of the jobs, the one looked decent, but the other looked like a bad autocad rendering from version 10. lol... But in the end, it just comes down to the client I guess... He wont buy anything but american made cars, but can stiff me on the renderings... lol

[glorybound]

greed has I lot to do with it, I suppose. I had an overseas company reach out to me the other day. The email said that they can do my modeling for me, for ten cents on the dollar. If I were greedy, it would be a win-win, but I am not greedy. Now, if everyone else is doing it, except for me, I couldn't compete. If this company had licensed software, and they paid their employees a fair wage, it would make sense. I am not to concerned about sending money oversees. We buy Fords, because it's an American maker, but they have factories oversees; it's all subjective.

[pskdude]

Lots of great ideas i like the idea of the blacklist idea. Make sure you disclaim it correctly, we dont want any lawsuits coming your way... lol
I to have several clients that have dissapeared and walk around saying they have investments and crap and they end up screwing Arch, eng, lawyers and myself at the end.

As far as the official Vray thing i would imagine Chaosgroup would have to release some official logo, no ?

[Sawyer]

greed has I lot to do with it, I suppose. I had an overseas company reach out to me the other day. The email said that they can do my modeling for me, for ten cents on the dollar. If I were greedy, it would be a win-win, but I am not greedy. Now, if everyone else is doing it, except for me, I couldn't compete. If this company had licensed software, and they paid their employees a fair wage, it would make sense. I am not to concerned about sending money oversees. We buy Fords, because it's an American maker, but they have factories oversees; it's all subjective.

Well Bobby...
I think you may be surprised at how wide spread this is in Arch Viz. Many Many Many big name house do it this way. I dont know if its greed as much as the efficient business (I am sure people could argue both are the same).

I worked on one job where the whole house was being remodeled and very high end panels with gilded molding all over every surface - something like this:

http://www.beaux-artes.com/products/...ch_panels.html

But the designer had a company in China doing the fabrication. Basically it was going to cost them more to hire me to do the renderings than it would be to build it. And one of the main things they wanted to use the renderings for was to explain to the Chinese company how to build it. That was not a good business model - haha.

[glorybound]

I think the greed is hiring someone when they know the software is stolen, or they are using slave labor.

[Sawyer]

I think the greed is hiring someone when they know the software is stolen, or they are using slave labor.

All good points - and you can still hire reputable companies overseas that use legit software and charge pennies to our dollar. When I was first looking into this issue I really thought it was very black and white. I have talked to others on the other side of this issue (mostly the US based companies that use overseas talent) and they made it sound much more complex and not quite so Dickenesque. I mean this isnt something I want to argue on the side of overseas labor. But I know I was amazed once I found out all the places that do use overseas talent and that it works - keeps their overhead low (though many still charged more per hour than I did) and they insure that the overseas companies do use legit software and make good money.

[glorybound]

All good points - and you can still hire reputable companies overseas that use legit software and charge pennies to our dollar. When I was first looking into this issue I really thought it was very black and white. I have talked to others on the other side of this issue (mostly the US based companies that use overseas talent) and they made it sound much more complex and not quite so Dickenesque. I mean this isnt something I want to argue on the side of overseas labor. But I know I was amazed once I found out all the places that do use overseas talent and that it works - keeps their overhead low (though many still charged more per hour than I did) and they insure that the overseas companies do use legit software and make good money.

My last employer outsourced, and after several projects, it started to work. Things do get complicated, when you add layers, and it's our reputation on the line. I would hate to be hired, based on being local, and then send things overseas. Maybe, when the client is money driven, outsourcing makes sense.

[Sawyer]

I have heard of much more places where it didnt work and went horribly wrong than it working. And most of the places where I heard it working there was a US team that would travel to South America, Easter Europe, India or wherever many times a year to set up the company, teach standards - probably build the computers... all that stuff.

[glorybound]

I remember, several years ago, getting an email asking if I wanted to open a store front. This overseas company wanted an American presence, but everything would sent over there. They wanted me to pay the rent, make the sales, and I would get half. I probably sent them a very nice, no thank you, email.

[peterguthrie]

Just how good are these outsourcing companies? If I don't model something myself, I find it usually takes just as long for me to correct/polish the model to my liking as if I had modeled it myself. Plus, modeling is one stage of the process that I really enjoy and find necessary (to understand the project fully).

[glorybound]

modeling is one stage of the process that I really enjoy and find necessary (to understand the project fully).

I agree with you. If I don't do the modeling, then I have a hard time understanding the project.

[pailhead]

I've been wanting to undercut the indian competition for a while now, but i can only do it if i start working for free. Well, besides sharing all my knowledge that took me 10 years to gather, i've modeled something for free for a random guy on cgarchitect. He just came there and asked how would one model a particular detail, and i wrote an in depth explanation and provided an actual model. Who knows, maybe if i run into him someday maybe he will give me his leftover lunch. Nothing beats someone elses half-eaten sandwitch!

No one ever gave me their recipe when i went to a restaurant, nor do i see professional chefs frequenting all the recipe sites or forums, but they should start learning from us. 3d should be free for everyone. Our clients hardly make millions any more, their profits are mostly in the hundreds of thousands, they shouldn't be paying for our services.

[pailhead]

Just how good are these outsourcing companies? If I don't model something myself, I find it usually takes just as long for me to correct/polish the model to my liking as if I had modeled it myself. Plus, modeling is one stage of the process that I really enjoy and find necessary (to understand the project fully).

Oh trust me, with all the stuff available on your blog, i'm sure that they can (if they havent already) become really good.

Plus, i work for peanuts or for free (as stated above) and i think i know a thing or two about modeling.

[pailhead]

I have heard of much more places where it didnt work and went horribly wrong than it working. And most of the places where I heard it working there was a US team that would travel to South America, Easter Europe, India or wherever many times a year to set up the company, teach standards - probably build the computers... all that stuff.

Between the ages of 4-9 i used to play on my mom's brand machines. An ibm 286, a 386 with an eizo screen back in '90 or '91... i haven't been able to afford a monitor like that ever since nor do i think i will be. From my first computer, up to this date, i haven't owned a single brand name or pre-assembled computer. I know quite a few really good 3d artists back home in Serbia, that set up their own rigs.

Although, back in the day of single CPUs, dual socket rigs were very very exotic and extremely expensive. I got myself involved into building a dual opteron machine, but by the time i was able to find some super expensive RAM, dual cores came out and were far cheaper and actually faster than what i was building. Fortunately i was able to get rid of the TYAN motherboard, and the cpus, i've no idea what did the guy who bought them do, but i know for sure it wasnt 3d.

I was always amazed by how some people can afford to buy $10k + workstations, and than do pretty average work, while someone can do amazing stuff with low end consumer rigs.

[lukx]

pailhead... I'm not sure what is your point? Can you explain it in one sentence?