How not to sound like a jerk?

[glorybound]

"oh, not a problem, I can work them day and night and they won't say a word"

Probably exactly what your client says to their client...

I would hope not, because that isn't the case.

[Pixelcon]

From what you're saying, I think this very well could be the case. You're not standing your ground, you're not enforcing their contractual obligations, so like others have suggested, they're likely not going to take you seriously.

[glorybound]

I just can't wrap my mind around the client mindset. They hold the balance ransom, using it to get more than they agreed too. I guess for me, it is the principle that matters. Yes, there is a contract but is it worth the time and effort to collect. I had a guy disappear over $450 and it cost me 1/2 that to take action. Currently, I have a guy who disappeared over $600 and I am not sure it's worth my time to go after him. I think I will, because of the principle, but it is sad that people think that they are so entitled.

[Morbid Angel]

Currently, I have a guy who disappeared over $600

did he not give you a deposit? Are you not sending him watermarked renders?

[glorybound]

Today, I sent him an email telling him that I am ready to submit my conciliation paper, however, I'll leave the screen open until the end of business day today. If his balance isn't paid in full I'll submit the form, which will cost $80 to submit and $385 for court fees, which will be billed to his account. He paid his balance within an hour.

Yes, he paid his deposit. I don't put a watermark on my images, but I do put my logo in the bottom right of the image, which comes off when the balance is paid. My contract says that they can't use the image until the final invoice is paid.

[Morbid Angel]

its why i hate service industry, my friend who owns a few successful companies (businesses) said that service sector is constant struggle. You need to produce a product and sell that product its the only way to make money and avoid dealing with day to day people and crap.

[glorybound]

I am sure every industry struggles. I know a guy who owns a town from buying wholesale clothes from China and selling it retail in the states. I know another person who sells this health stuff and she made $450,000 a year the last few years. Literally, this lady does nothing but takes orders.

[Morne]

Your 10 step process is the issue we all face. The main issue is with point 2 and point 5. Their initial needs more often than not, change drastically by the time you get to point 5. You have to learn to say no.

[dean_dmoo]

Do you talk to your clients during the process? Or is it all just emails once contracted? So much gets lots with email, I always call and go through it with them (cam, lighting, materials, etc). Besides everything becoming more clear and focussed you personalise the work so, in your case, you're not just some online service.

And then after the call you send a summary email detailing what's been discussed.

I think it's also understanding the market, from what I have seen and read they are nearly all real estate / developers so their focus is nearly always the bottom line, especially within the scale of your work (single houses or limited developments). Building costs are increasing by the month, they want to sell asap to keep their margins, etc. Literally every dollar they spend cuts their own profits. And at the same time they are often rushing about trying to get everything sorted around the project of which the images are just one element. You can't rely on them to know everything you need to do your part correctly / without a lot of revisions.

In your situation I think more and clearer communication is needed to hopefully weed out the worst of it. Go through each step with them and continually check that the data they are delivering is correct and specified enough. Your example about the oven vents I find ridiculous, are they a kitchen company selling the oven or are they selling an impression of the kitchen that comes with the house? And looking at it the other way, did you ask for enough specifications to correctly model the kitchen? Had you known the detail they want would your quote have been what it was?

It's hard to do with how busy you are, but spending more time during the preparation phase getting all the info and clearly explaining what you and they need to do should help. And if they cant do it you kinda know the chances of how it will go.

[glorybound]

You are correct, communication is the key. I am finding that, with a lot me clients, this is the first time they are using someone like me. I rarely talk to my clients on the phone and I never meet face-to-face. I think a phone conversation to kick off a project is a good idea. I like to pre-qualify potential clients through emails first. This way I am not wasting my time on hour-long conversations.

[Deflaminis]

These types of jobs are always painful. I understand wanting to be a good guy, and I've not always been in this situation. In the end I just worked in 'additional revisions @ XX/Hr." into the contracts. For some reason the clients are a lot more careful and deliberate once the billing starts for change rounds.

[glorybound]

My contract says the same. Any change requests outside the two revisions will be billed per hour. As you said, the change isn't as important to them after they know it'll cost them.

[rusteberg]

of the nearly 14k posts you have on this forum i think i've read about 12k complaining about clients.

find ones you like working with who are willing to pay you what you're worth or shut the fuck up.

welcome to the real world. have a wonderful day.

[rusteberg]

for the record i'm not trolling here. your posts regarding clients come across as insecure. you either need to own them or find a job where an employer owns you. quit acting like a victim and take ownership of your own actions.

maybe that will help you understand instead of all the fluffy, holding hands while singing kumbaya bullshit that normally gets written in response to your whining about clients.

embrace the hard feelings. it's good stuff when you know how to deal with it.

[glorybound]

It's called sharing the experience for others to contribute and learn from. Most of us sit in a room, by ourselves, for 50+ hours a week. Please, don't try to talk someone down from a ledge, let someone with empathy do it!

This was a timely post.