Blur switches to XSI !!!

[charleyc]

Re: Wow Xsi is that good

Wow so XSI is that good, I'll have to dig up my old tutorials and check it out once again. They have a starter level that is under $500, worth considering based on your opinions and blurs decision. Of course I will still need a solution for rendering, maybe I can get them to foot the bill at work, so I will be able to import to max and still render in Vray. If blur are doing it ( I think they mainly use Brazil ) then you must be able to do it right ?

With all due respect, I wouldn't be to quick to jump into things until you know it is what you need. Blur is in a unique position for a number or reasons. They have taken max to levels most others have not and done so for years. They know precisely what it is that they want/need that they are finding in XSI from experience. Also, they have ended up with strong ties due to Face Robot. And Blur is doing some very high end stuff in the way of character animation. I am not saying you shouldn't be interested in XSI, but be sure you need what it is that you don't get from max. Could be that you have more than you need with max. If you base some production decisions off of others needs, you may be creating hardship for yourself unneccesarily by picking up (cost), learning, and incorporating new software into your work flow.

That being said, I was impressed with Softimage3d's animation abilities (when it was Softimage3d), I can't imagine where they have taken their product over the years. If you do a lot of character animation and have the resources, I would certainly not be afraid to incorporate a tool like XSI. I imagine that through scripting and things like point caching, it would not be too difficult to export animation back to max for rendering (assuming it is not as easy as using some format such as fbx)

[Da_elf]

i hated softimage3d back then.

[charleyc]

i hated softimage3d back then.

I hated it for everything except rigging and animation....course that was in the days of either the legacy bones in max or CS 1.

If the main reason Blur switched is because of viewport response time, I would say that is a big kick in the butt to Autodesk to get max up there. That is an area that it has seemed to get surpassed in over the years.

[Da_elf]

i never understood how a package thought to be better than max back then didnt have integrated particle systems hehe

[charleyc]

i never understood how a package thought to be better than max back then didnt have integrated particle systems hehe

Simple, max was ahead of its time

[Da_elf]

hehe. well, maya had already had it. however you couldnt scrub back and forth on the timeline with maya particles. you could with max though although it was slow

[charleyc]

hehe. well, maya had already had it. however you couldnt scrub back and forth on the timeline with maya particles. you could with max though although it was slow

3d max had particles before Maya came out. Not sure if Power Animator or whatever program Alias made before Maya had particles. But Max particles (in conjunction with Afterburn) was one of the first things to put max in feature film.

[Da_elf]

i remember the ipas plugins for 3d studio with their particles as well. the flock one was cool.

[charleyc]

I never used the particles in 3ds dos. But man I loved IPAS routines

Its amazing to look at 3d apps today from eyes that have seen the old DOS days. There is a lot still to be wished for, but dang how far they have come.

To bring Blur back into this, I still remember the (I think) Max 2.5 roadshows that showed off the work Blur had done for...that one movie with the partially digested man. That and Blizzards StarCraft cinematics...it was all so very exciting at the time. And here we are today, still being impressed by Blur (and Blizzard).

[Adam H. Stewart]

Big picutre stuff

You are of course right about blur being a massive studio doing incredibly high level work and they do pride themselves on using whatever tool is best for the job at hand regaurdless.

The main reason I am considering learning a bit or xsi is my current nervousiness over max. In my short time using the software (R3) it has jumped in leaps and bounds but by all accounts R8 was a bit of a clunker. I am still using 7.5 and it is nearly siggraph time again already - this didn't happen with earlier versions of the software, it just seems in the 3D industry if you aren't going forwards then your going backwards, there isn't alot of room for standing still.

Some things make me question where max is going? The Godawful design of the DVD cover for 8 and the black loading screen - how long did they spend designing these ? - these are small things but branding in everything, how much do they care? now that autodesk also own maya how much time are they really going to put into max ? where is their incentive to make it a better product for the future?

I downloaded XSI over the weekend and am trying out the demo, a little bit of tinker can't hurt - can it

[joconnell]

I'm definitely going along with the use whatever tool is best for the job thing. Vray is a big part of my decision at the moment but even without, max is still a really quick environment to work in. It's great for character animation now with some features you dont get in maya (admittedly the reverse is true), the particles are really good, it's got great polygon modelling tools and it's pretty direct to work with. Admittedly XSI is a newer and more powerful environment in terms of getting access to almost everything in a scene without using something like maxscript but i think it loses a little bit of speed for this reason. personally I don't operate in a huge studio so I don't need stuff like the open file formats of XSI or maya and likewise the program isn't being written into a much larger pipeline. For getting really good work out fast, max still does it for me at the moment.

[charleyc]

Adam H. Stewart - I would never disuade someone from messing around with a tool that could be really usefull to them. My biggest concern is that sometimes people hear stuff like this and start to think that a tool they have already invested in is not going to cut it for them. Max has gotten tremendously better over the years. R8 has some of the most significant improvements in certain areas since R4's new bone implementation. I got immediate workflow improvements in R8 that helped me get my work done faster. For anyone that did not get 7.5, R8 brought even more to the table. For riggers and animators, R8 has really stepped up. The idea of it being really buggy, to me stems primarily from the rather severe issues with CS off the bat. I think most people have assumed it is worse than other releases because there was a louder noise about some of the bugs. For me, I have encountered none of the show stopping bugs others may have. This means that for me, Max is still a very viable tool. I am very anxious to see what R9 brings, but I am hesitant to listen to the winds of change blown around on web forums about the future of max (or any app).

But again, I would certainly encourage you to play around with XSI as I beleive that certain tools favor certain people and their tasks. It would be misfortunate to stick with a tool that is not going to help you as much as a different tool. Just be sure you are using the tools the way they are intended before you get in too big a hurry to switch. It is like the difference between hammers. At fist glance they will all do the same job with similar results. However, using a sledge hammer to pound 1,000 nails would require a lot more energy than a regular hammer. As well, I have never seen a sledge hammer with a pry fork on the end. And conversly the same is true if you had to break up a patch of concrete, for that I would take the sledge hammer. Along that analogy, if all you ever saw was a standard hammer, you would never know the benifits of a sledge hammer.

I suppose I just want to encourage you to make a decision based on educated facts/assumptions rather than what you hear someone else is doing.

[Adam H. Stewart]

Nice analogy

I like that analogy, I used to work in construction and all hammers are not born equal - I now work at a studio where people are always saying that maya is the Sh###t that it can just about create life, and I keep saying sure if your working in Lord of the Rings it can, but if you can't employ all the coders necessary to trouble shoot your problems it doesn't matter a damn.

I am not altogether unhappy with max - in fact at the moment I am particularly happy, my last project went very smoothly - things would have to go South pretty badly for me to jump ship, but that being said a major studio that was so gung-ho about max 2 years ago even partially moving to another sotware is pause for thought.

Hopefully all this doubt will be put to rest when they release 9 and it is kick ass - and even better has a loading screen that is actually designed, anything other then black :P

[charleyc]

Re: Nice analogy

Hopefully all this doubt will be put to rest when they release 9 and it is kick ass - and even better has a loading screen that is actually designed, anything other then black :P

Me too

[dellis]

Adam,

I use XSI at home and MAX at work. I am much faster in Max but unfortunately i haven't been confident in taking the plunge for MAX yet. If i did more freelance i wouldn't hesitate at all though. I would say if you are close to buying your own copy of MAX...just buy a copy of XSI foundation so you have it...and it won't set you back that much. I bought a copy of it when i was at siggraph and haven;t regreted it at all. Then you could wait just a litttle while longer and buy MAX. The scary thing is that i think we are in the beginning of a major shift in the 3d software market...one in which none of us really know which will be the wise investment...for the present and the future. I'm going to hold off on buying my own copy of MAX until after the next release....oh and i've downloaded and installed the MAYA 7 PLE...just trying to cover all my bases!!!!