Article on How Much We Should Charge

[glorybound]

Revit isn't helping the cause either. Revit is producing renderings, but they are the look and feel that I was doing in Accurender about 20 years ago. If the project manager is running the show then cheap is good.

[Polygonstate]

I like the article. In my opinion there's one more factor that starts hitting our reality.
Outsourcing to Eastern Europe. I have a steady client here that used to give me about 50-60 small graphic jobs a month. I was living great pretty much off him alone.
Now he found out about freelancer sites and he pays 65% less than he used to pay me for similar work so I'm stuck with maybe 10 projects a month.
The way I see it once people raise their awareness that you can get a job outside the country, bypassing taxes and etc they will hit for it and some already do.
Global economy, global currency here we come... That's how I see it at some point and I wouldn't be surprised if it would come in our lifetime.
I

[3DMK]

I like the article. In my opinion there's one more factor that starts hitting our reality.
Outsourcing to Eastern Europe. I have a steady client here that used to give me about 50-60 small graphic jobs a month. I was living great pretty much off him alone.
Now he found out about freelancer sites and he pays 65% less than he used to pay me for similar work so I'm stuck with maybe 10 projects a month.
The way I see it once people raise their awareness that you can get a job outside the country, bypassing taxes and etc they will hit for it and some already do.
Global economy, global currency here we come... That's how I see it at some point and I wouldn't be surprised if it would come in our lifetime.
I

Very Good Point.

There are issues however such as Local knowledge of the Particular Architectural & Landscaping style that is often unique to each Country. EG. The 'Asian' 3D rendering style is often very Cartoon/dream-like & not very valid for my country, [Australia] neither are the their trees & plants.

Hopefully that will keep us all bit separated [& doing better] for a bit longer

Cheers

[judderman]

Been reading this thread now for a while now. I know that the company I work for charge too little for what we do. I know that that can be counter productive as well though - cheap rates, little time to work on something, cheap looking image results, the cycle continues. I try my best to create the best images I can, invariably losing money because I spend more time than I should, but when your employer can't afford to buy f**king Vray RT, you know something bad is going on. It's not even that expensive!!!

The only thing keeping me going is my drive to get out of godforsaken architectural imaging. I hate the industry, the clients mostly, not necessarily the work. If one thing the recession has shown me, is what the world of work is really like. I think I like about 10% of our clients, the rest are morons expecting something for virtually nothing.

I have a friend who creates TV ads, does some really nice varied 3d work and motion graphics. I know his company charge about 3 times per hour for what he does compared to what we do, and it's reflected in his salary and lifestyle compared to mine. What incentive is there to remain in a dead in the water industry when possibilities like that remain at your feet? I say let those who are prepared to work for a pittance do so, whilst I do something vastly more satisfying instead!

[jujubee]

Well, I think motion graphics is probably a completely different beast. There's things about that which intimidates me. You also need to break down skill-level and the amount of years one has been doing their work for. All the guys I know that work with motion graphics here on this forum kicks my butt. They more than deserve every penny they get for their skills and knowledge.

If you're just starting out in the field, then I wouldn't expect to make much. A lot of people fresh out of college would be lucky to see $20/hour at the large visualization firms - more like $15/hour the last I checked. If there's benefits as well, then that should be factored-in. Someone fresh out of school would also be likely to have roommates to help halve or even split living costs three ways.

As for the field, I'm having a grand old time at the moment. Never been busier, and if someone is late getting information to me I'll tell them flat out that they put their project in jeopardy because there's others scheduled. So I suppose that instead of them having ultimate control over me like I was their servant, they're coming to me because I produce something they want or need. In the past I felt like I was their bitch, but finally it has gotten past that point. If you have a boss that's a "yes ma'am", "no ma'am" type of person then I think that will trickle down and end up making life difficult.

I'd actually say that 90% of my clients are just fine. They're all a little tight $$$-wise at the moment. A lot of it has to do with their knowledge of renderings. Quite frankly, 85% of them know very little about it - especially the photorealistic end. That's where you have to come in and educate them. Be frank and open - point out when something is going to take much longer, and clearly state that you need to charge for changes.

Also from a technical standpoint, you start adding employees and there's a much higher overhead. I'm sure any good boss wants to pay more, but it's a numbers game. A large firm has equipment and software to keep-up to date. That adds a whole different layer of complexity. I wouldn't go so far as to think a boss is being cheap - it may simply be that they don't know what they're doing or they're stuck in a dynamically changing field. 10 years ago, it would take a firm to produce some renderings and animations. With Moore's Law - someone in their apartment now can produce something of similar quality or better. The older model is getting a little more outdated IMO.

It also used to be that if you worked for a company, many people thought there was a level of job security. As we all know now after the Dot Com boom, there's really no such thing any more. Benefits? Pffft... It still might exist, but you have to work for Microsoft or Google to probably get the works.

As to "what incentive?" I've written this from more of the perspective of a freelancer/business owner. I think anyone that has been freelancing for a while would probably not want to give up the comfort of their own home, saving a few hours commute each day, having to answer to unreasonable demands, and the potential to make more money. Basically be in charge of your own fate. When people start to admire your work as well - that's always a good feeling that you're not a complete f***-up too.

I can't speak for you, but I'm happy just to have a graphics job. It beats flipping hamburgers for a living.

[judderman]

True, it certainly does beat flipping burgers though I'm totally jaded with it, can't see myself working in this industry for the rest of my days!

[Morne]

I can't seem to get to your article on your blog. Seems your entire blog has been wiped and now just shows the standard wp fron page.

[jujubee]

It's currently down as I'm switching hosts to Mediatemple to improve all of my site speeds. I have to wait until the propagation hits the East coast.

edit: up again today.

[glyph]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but we all need to include coverage for :
sick leave (yes, we may not get sick when running our own business but sometimes you might be really ill)
a few weeks holiday each year
pension saving
savings to cover the times when work dries up
plus
research time to figure out new ideas and methods
administration time to run the business

[glorybound]

Is our work any different then architectural illustrations from years gone by? We tend to place the value in the software and not the skill of the person. I read and study a lot on composition, what makes a good image good, and this is what we need to focus on.

I implemented Revit here about 4 years ago and I was hesitant because Revit made modeling and rendering easy. I put the company's interest above mine, learned, and then taught Revit to 15 CAD tech's and 7 architects. All these great 22 people can do is South East isometrics with no focal point and the front of the building in the shade. This is not a insult.... they get paid to do other things and they do those things very well.

The software is getting easier to use guys! We need to concentrate on the art of illustrations, this is were we'll be valued in the industry. They will not know why our images are so nice; they'll just know they are nice images.

[jujubee]

pension saving. savings to cover the times when work dries up
research time to figure out new ideas and methods
administration time to run the business

I covered that - but I didn't even consider sick leave. I 'think' I built two weeks vacation (US standard) into the work weeks. Perhaps it's more if you count holiday. I don't take vacation and I don't take holidays...

Why is everyone writing here - is the blog comment section not working properly or is there some nasty spam protection going on?

[glorybound]

Blog

I just posted to your blog and it worked fine for me

[jujubee]

Thanks man - I wasn't sure if the spam filters/plugins were knocking people out. Also, I wasn't sure how the new database was working for others.