Is 3d visualization field still premium??

[prateekvishwa]

I remember around 4 years back .. i used to charge around 650$ to 750$ for one view locally. i also have some overseas clients who used to pay even better that time.
But now scene is totally different.. Almost every week i get 1 or 2 inquiries regarding small to mid size 3d projects from overseas.. most of them are from UK but surprisingly they are quite stiff in their budgets. most of them come with a budget of approx 450$ - 600$ for an entire project! i.e. 5-6 visuals. some of them even expect walkthrough in the same budget! I am just wondering where is this field going?? I can understand if rates for 3d is getting standardized globally but why is it coming so-so down??
Is piracy or competition responsible? because i am sure this business is not easy to run with small investment & if investment is huge how people are affording to do entire project with walkthrough in the budget of 500$! Or is it clients who are trying to explore the lowest of this field which is why they are pushing so down?
what are your thoughts guys?

[Dariusz Makowski (Dadal)]

Hard to say... not piracy in my opinion. In my opinion there is just more of us. The teach it at university and more knowledge is accessible to more people. Ain't rocket science anymore... Further more its easier now, technology changed and so on... What in past took me to do 1 week I'm doing now in 2h... so I guess its getting standardized. But yea some people do come up with crazy low prices... but then they are usually looking for fools/students...

[glorybound]

We have to find ways to do things the other guy can't do, or do it faster and better. You'll find SketchUp in almost every architectural office, and as far as they care, that is good enough. I talked to a guy last night who uses Revit, and his boss's clients love it, but the images are awful. The images he showed me are equivalent to what I was doing 20 years ago using Accurender. I work for architects, and all they want to see is a SE ISO showing their entire design, which they don't need me for. I pencil sketch often and people marvel over, my so called, God given gift. I tell them I can teach them to sketch in a fraction of the time I can teach them to digital render, but they seem to appreciate things that computers don't help produce.

If we want to stay working, and earning a living, I think we have to produce a better product for the same price, which means we have to get the right tools and get very good at it.

[Six8]

If we want to stay working, and earning a living, I think we have to produce a better product for the same price, which means we have to get the right tools and get very good at it.

Very well said

[prateekvishwa]

I remember in 2009-2010 when recession was in peak.. it was tough time & i was doing 3d in dirt cheap price, but i remember some of my old clients getting it done from me at decent price whereas i was doing same quality work for others in very cheap rates... i now feel, i cheated my old clients by giving same quality work which i was giving to new one in cheap rates... i shouldn't have done this.. I personally think we should give output based on client budget rather thn giving our best all the time irrespective of their budget..

[glorybound]

I personally think we should give output based on client budget rather thn giving our best all the time irrespective of their budget..

I struggle with this concept; there has to be times that we just say no to work if it compromises our quality. Ford makes Fords and Mercedes makes Mercedes, there is a market for both and both probably make the same profit at the end of the day. You see far more Fords than you see Mercedes, but the Mercedes is far nicer and more expensive.

The States are really cracking down on pirate sites so I see light and the end of the tunnel. Software companies will continue to make better software and you'll start to see far fewer people getting access to illegal software. The people who pay for their software will have access to the newest technology. I see a day when we rent software and everything is ran from the software developers cloud servers.

Today anyone can freelance because there isn't an investment in software, everything is stolen. I have about $50,000.00 invested in software to do what I do an I spend about $1,000.00 a month adding to my arsenal. Things will change when someone has to invest $50,000.00 to get started, which is still small potatoes for most start-ups, but will weed out the fly-by-night people.

[Morne]

Problem is that clients wants "mercedes" for price of "ford" in the time it takes to build a "bicycle". These cheapo suppliers that give in just to get the job, are killing the industry.
Then again there are the clients that just don't know better. I've seen renders that looks worse than viewport stuff looked 10 years ago, but those companies makes more money than me with their junk.

[prateekvishwa]

The States are really cracking down on pirate sites so I see light and the end of the tunnel.

In India i dont see any hope to crackdown piracy very soon... i doubt im going to see this happening before i retire lol.. but i noticed many potential clients , mainly builders.. they are not aware of the level of photorealism that can be achieved in 3d.. when i meet them i see they are actually happy with what they are getting & they are getting it very cheap.. when i show them some of my 3d images they get confused if it is real, as a 3d visualizer i know my images are not very gr8 comparative to international market standard but it is impressing them.. may be we need to showoff real potential of this field and we are in business thn.. may be we need to be more innovative..

[glorybound]

I moved from Chicago to a small town in upper MN. Things up here are still done with a handshake and they would never go outside their state for a service; if they new I was from Chicago they would write me off, too. I do work full time for a design/builder, but I am confident that if I were to freelance full time, going door-to-door, I would do very good for myself. I agree, most people don't know how photo real we can get, but I am not sure if they would pay 10x for an image that is 10x as good. If I can do work 10x as good for 2x the fee I might have a chance. The only way I can do that is getting really good and proficient at what I do.

The digital camera didn't do away with the photographer, nor will cheap software do away with the illustrator. Most people are generally lazy and don't learn much after school. How much do we retain from school, anyway? I was taught 3DS MAX in school, but I didn't learn it until I wanted to, a decade later. 3DS MAX is difficult, until you get good at it, then it becomes easy. The same thing goes for V-Ray.

If my opinion matters I would say learn the basics of photography, composition, and cinematography. People will not know why your illustrations are better, they'll just know they are.

[beestee]

Problem is that clients wants "mercedes" for price of "ford" in the time it takes to build a "bicycle". These cheapo suppliers that give in just to get the job, are killing the industry.
Then again there are the clients that just don't know better. I've seen renders that looks worse than viewport stuff looked 10 years ago, but those companies makes more money than me with their junk.

How long can that type of strategy work though? If they are undercutting for the sake of acquiring work but cannot cover their expenses then they would eventually reach a point that they could no longer continue. Same boat as someone that overprices and recieves too few projects to cover expenses. The industry will last just fine, it will just be those that can maintain the right balance in cost vs gain.

[glorybound]

I agree Ben, but to a point. Some people find faster and better ways to do it. If we are doing the same thing we were doing 6 months ago there is probably a better way today; we have to continue to learn and get better. Competition makes services get better and prices drop; the consumer wins.

[simmsimaging]

Always a difficult subject, and one prone to strong feelings being expressed. I think experience bears out that market forces can and will drive down the value of certain types of work and it can have little do with whether or not the work is any easier, or if the local cost of living has gone up or down. Broadening the supply market (through globalization and expanding talent pool due to training and easier learning curves etc.) will always impact the specialists day rates.

To some extent you can ride along on being better than the rest, or being more efficient etc, but as others have pointed out: it doesn't always matter to the clients. The job is only worth what the job is worth to them, and at that point it is up to you to play along or not. It sucks if the rates go below a sustainable level for your lifestyle, but if that is how it is, then that is how it is, and sometimes it is just time to rethink the career path, or lifestyle.

Opinion will always vary on this, and there will always be anecdotes to support all of them, and exceptions that prove the rule (whatever the hell that *really* means) but one thing I have noted in a lot of years of discussing this subject (with photographers, typesetting and pre-press guys etc) is that we often forget that the value of our time is *always* a balance between what we think it's worth and what the market will pay for it. The two don't always meet happily, and your hard costs only factor into the first. That's a tough one to swallow, but often we have to, and often without knowing why it's justified - that is just how it is, take it or leave it.

My POV anyway.
/b

[MoonDoggie]

Good opinions in this thread. From my perspective 3d work pays better than programming work, which I do much more of, for a smaller fee.

Honestly, there's vultures everywhere and want dirt cheap renderings for next to no pay. Learning to say "no" is the most important thing I've learned in this industry. When the recession was in full effect especially, I didn't really mind doing a $500 project, but they are, in the end, getting a $500 rendering. So saying "yes" is fine, but in these cases of cheap renderings, educating the client on how much things can cost to produce is crucial. Sometimes if clients are _very_ difficult and pressing for a cheap price I'll let them know what they are getting and if need be let them know approx how much it cost for one of the images on my site that is similar. Honestly, if they say someone else will do it for 1/4 of the price (this happened relatively recently), I'll tell them to go use that person.

We are respected for our work on our sites as individuals/companies.

If you, as a client, had an amazing story to tell in the style of Pixar and really wanted it done, but company B would do it for 1/8 of the price. If you project is that important to you, you would see the value of hiring Pixar and wouldn't let someone ruin your story for cheaper.

Tell them "no", produce good work, ???, profit?

[prateekvishwa]

To some extent you can ride along on being better than the rest, or being more efficient etc, but as others have pointed out: it doesn't always matter to the clients. The job is only worth what the job is worth to them, and at that point it is up to you to play along or not.
/b

When they hv millions to invest in real estate etc.. & earning many more millions from the same.. i dont understand for what reason they dont have money to spend on something which is going to be a part of their marketing packge ( mostly)..

[Morne]

Because for every cent they have to pay you more, it is one cent less they get in their own pocket when the project is finished