Thoughts on subscription-based software vs ownership?

[glorybound]

All-in-all, $123 (yearly) a month is palatable, however it's forever!

I almost want to move to Cinema 4D but after so many years, money in assets, etc .... I'm trap.

[glorybound]

Also, that price can go up exponentially at any time. The talk on Twitter is Cinema 4D and Blender.

[JezUK]

I'll admit, I'm a software junkie I love the 3D community, and love the CGI software (aka toys) I get to play with everyday.

But yes, I can't afford all the software I enjoy *anymore*, some of which has recently turned to subscription and with an associated big jump in that 'subscription' price (eg. HDR Light Studio, which like Vlado, is a piece of software I get to use once or twice a year).

I got a call from a dealer last week touting for my Autodesk business - I told him I'm already on subscription with another dealer thanks but still, we reminisced about the good 'ole days.

As an Autodesk dealer, he informed that Autodesk will be going all subscription based with no 'maintenance contracts' (can't remember if that was his opinion, or crystal ball) - so I asked how could that be fair when I'd already paid a lot of money up front to 'buy admission'. His reply was that got worse as he claimed us 'maintenance' guys would most likely be bought up to level by paying the same fees as the subscribers (who didn't have to pay an 'admission' ticket to join the club.....

"How can that be fair" I asked, to which (maybe he was trying to put the frighteners up me) by adding that that sub fee would be around £1000 per year !!!!

This is all getting a bit silly IMO and with competition globally for my skills (on a non-level playing field) - I am seriously looking, in all ways, at alternatives.

3DS Max has always been my 3D software from the very beginning (starting on 3DS Studio R3 using dos), I don't know anything else. But maybe SketchUP could be my next choice. Or Cinema 4D..... or Blender...... Or.....

PS - ZBrush seems to be about the software company whose business model remains 'ole school - and their company ethos seems much more in the way why I love the 3D community so much. Autodesk just seem to be the complete antithesis in terms of sharp business practices (and taking, while giving little back).

PPS - Kudos to Itoo and Chaos and the many others who strike a fair deal with their partners.

[arobbert]

For the moment you can still buy with a Maintenance subscription (that's what I have), but I doubt it'll be too long before they phase it out in favor of the desktop subscription. When that happens, I will stick with the last copy of max I can buy for possibly the rest of my career.

- Neil

I just dumped my maintenance subscription which is essentially a rental fee. I'm sure we'll see pay as you go in the near future. It hasn't seemed to slow down Adobe at all (a point not unnoticed by AD I'm sure). I'll use the current version as long as possible. When (I) decide (I) need to upgrade I'll compare the hassle/cost of switching to something else. Hopefully they won't all go this way.

[super gnu]

im in the same boat.. i got so annoyed by paying the subscription for substandard releases that i cancelled. means ive missed a couple of good releases now.. they seem to have upped their game a bit (typical) however i took great pleasure in ignoring all their imploring/warning emails about this being my "very last chance to save"

[Syclone1]

I hear you on that one, Ill most likely be doing the same.

For the moment you can still buy with a Maintenance subscription (that's what I have), but I doubt it'll be too long before they phase it out in favor of the desktop subscription. When that happens, I will stick with the last copy of max I can buy for possibly the rest of my career.

- Neil

[Nicinus]

The part I don't understand is why the subscription model supposedly means we will see more upgrades and faster development. It would seem to me that all incentives for this are lost when the customer is forced to have a subscription in order for the software to run. At least with a new yearly version they would have to make an effort to get people onboard. I see the part with being able to release a new feature whenever it is ready, I just think these may be further apart as there is no pressure anymore.

I hope Win 10 will work well with Max 2016 and these will last me many years forward.

[glorybound]

They won't have to support old software

[Donald2B]

I'm not talking about Autodesk specifically here, but more about a publicly traded company. I was once told a publicly traded company is "not allowed" to enhance the existing year's software substantially without some type of payment to get said features. I may be totally stating that wrong, but that is the general idea. So it's not really an Autodesk thing, but an aspect of being a publicly traded company. That's why information is hard to get from most companies because they are under so many NDAs regarding trade rules and regulations.

Just a different side of things to think about. Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it all, but alas, it is what it is.

From a personal standpoint, I'm with Neil, Vlado and the others. I think ChaosGroup and Itoosoft are some of the best out there regarding cost structure. I hope to continue to support those companies moving forward. I'm not going to give up on 3DS Max, but I do keep filing out surveys when I get them regarding price talk and subscription plans and things like that. My voice may not be strong, but at least I gave them my honest opinion on the matter.

[Booska]

Those are good points, Neil. There's a psychlogical element of security that goes with owning something. The feeling that someone has the power to yank the rug out from under your feet at any moment also doesn't do much to encourage brand loyalty. And if they were to take away your access, what about all the money that had been paid previously? Would that not count for anything? If you had spent well over the previous cost of owning in accumulated subscription fees for some Adobe product, say, do you get completely shut off if you can no longer afford to pay your rent? That doesn't seem fair at all...

I hope ChaosGroup just keeps on keeping on with V-Ray. In my opinion (and I'm sure I'm not alone) they are doing things the right way.

[tricky]

Maybe in fee quotes to clients, 'software rental at £x/day' should be added to 3d modelling, rendering, post production, photography etc?

[JezUK]

I got my annual subscription quote for my one copy of 3ds Max from my Autodesk Dealer today, to which they added something on top that I've never seen before;

"3DS Max Non-specialization fee" (£40) ??

Any ideas what this is (I've asked them and am waiting for their reply).

Thing is, another Autodesk dealer trying to win my business didn't quote me for this 'extra'.....

Is this another attempt by Autodesk to squeeze more money out of me ??

[flino2004]

because of the subscription they are obligated to release a new version every year to justify the price...They could be service packs and extensions. instead to wait anxious for a "new version" to me is more WTF i have re install everything again!!!
Keep tracking of the plugins that I have and going one by one collecting them....charge me less money and name them service pack please!!!....overpaying for fancy marketing words.

[glorybound]

Didn't Autodesk loose some court case about someone selling their copy of AutoCAD? Autodesk said that you don't actually own it; you are leasing it. Autodesk lost, so maybe this subscription is something that Autodesk's legal department dreamed up.

[flino2004]

maybe but we already the paid full price... I think the guy was selling his license in Ebay and Autodesk tried to block the sell.... you can transfer it to another company but you have to be at least 25% partner there.
they have a big chunk of the market so they do what they want to do.

I hope but it's a dream that they never put their hands on V-ray. there is an expression in Spanish "with money the monkey dances"