What formats are people using?

[Pixelcon]

I think windows is doing something during the copy paste operation. Ever since I started using my current setup with a calibrated monitor, copy-paste operations always result in very different results.

[hermit.crab]

What happens differently, between copy and paste from VFB to photoshop and saving to JPG/PNG/TIFF/TGA and loading that in Photoshop?

The latter goes through the 3ds Max output, applying the settings for the chosen format, and the color management render output defaults. Note: there is an issue with these output defaults (fixed in the nightly builds) not being correctly applied. Hence, we advise setting the Render Output Defaults to "No Conversion" so that the display corrections can be correctly saved (Save in Image) through V-Ray. I'm pretty sure some of the confusion comes from this issue.

I think windows is doing something during the copy paste operation. Ever since I started using my current setup with a calibrated monitor, copy-paste operations always result in very different results.

I'm on Win11 and just tested copying the current channel from the clipboard - no differences when pasting to PS (sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space). You can download a free clipboard viewer to see if the image is indeed copied correctly.

[Vizioen]

The latter goes through the 3ds Max output, applying the settings for the chosen format, and the color management render output defaults. Note: there is an issue with these output defaults (fixed in the nightly builds) not being correctly applied. Hence, we advise setting the Render Output Defaults to "No Conversion" so that the display corrections can be correctly saved (Save in Image) through V-Ray. I'm pretty sure some of the confusion comes from this issue.

When using Gamma 2.2 workflow there are no conversion options in the output settings.

[Vizioen]

I think windows is doing something during the copy paste operation. Ever since I started using my current setup with a calibrated monitor, copy-paste operations always result in very different results.

Yeah those are some of the issues I had as well when trying to use a monitor profile.

[hermit.crab]

When using Gamma 2.2 workflow there are no conversion options in the output settings.

Then there shouldn't be any differences between the copy of the RGB channel (if Display Correction is Gamma 2.2 instead of sRGB) and the saved image. Send some examples if this is not the case on your end.

EDIT: Clarity.

[Vizioen]

Then there shouldn't be any differences between the copy of the RGB channel and the saved image. There will probably be a slight difference between them and the VFB (Gamma 2.2 vs sRGB). Send some examples if this is not the case on your end.

Well there's a slight difference indeed, the saved images are a little less contrasty. Just tested it. I like the look of the copied version a lot more. Is there no way to have the VFB save the image as if it were copied/pasted, so the end result is like the VFB?


This the copy to Photoshop and saved to JPG:



This is VFB saved to JPG:



This is the difference (you can barely see it, but it's there):



And this is the difference but boosted:

[hermit.crab]

Well there's a slight difference indeed, the saved images are a little less contrasty. Just tested it. I like the look of the copied version a lot more. Is there no way to have the VFB save the image as if it were copied/pasted, so the end result is like the VFB?

That's because the Copy to clipboard saves the image uncompressed, unlike lossy formats like .jpg. If you save an 8-bit uncompressed .tiff, you'll notice there is no difference

[Vizioen]

That's because the Copy to clipboard saves the image uncompressed, unlike lossy formats like .jpg. If you save an 8-bit uncompressed .tiff, you'll notice there is no difference

That's the thing, even with no compression formats (I tested this with TIF; no compression) the difference in contrast is almost the same as with JPG/PNG/..., they are a little more washed out than the copy paste. Below a boosted difference between TIF and copy paste. So it must be something else?

[hermit.crab]

Is your VFB Display Correction set to Gamma 2.2 (rather than sRGB) when copying to the clipboard? If it's not the comparison will not be accurate - the copy will be with the sRGB look, the saved - with Gamma 2.2. (forgot to mention this two posts ago). When I made the .tiff comparison I was saving both raw since I thought we already eliminated this difference.

EDIT: Also, Vlado mentioned the VFB Dither (VFB Settings> Render View) is different from the 3ds Max one (Customize >Preferences > Rendering), so there might be some differences there too. Although, I don't see them in a simple scene.

[Vizioen]

Aaah yes thanks, that was it, that seems to be a 1:1. My Display Correction was set to sRGB. So is it possible to save with sRGB instead of Gamma 2.2?

[vlado]

So is it possible to save with sRGB instead of Gamma 2.2?

Not at the moment but we are thinking of providing a way to do that.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Vizioen]

Not at the moment but we are thinking of providing a way to do that.

Best regards,
Vlado

Great, thanks Vlado <3

[piotrus3333]

it used to be possible within VRay with LUT layer set to srgb and empty lut file loaded. just save lut from VFB with no adjustments.

not sure how this works now as 7 has some changes to lut layer.

[piotrus3333]

That slight change is likely the difference between gamma 2.2 and sRGB.
I agree the whole topic is stupidly complicated.

(I also use the legacy Gamma Worflow. I also have my calibration .icc file loaded into the VFB for correction.)

that is in my opinion a good and robust, tried and tested approach in 3ds max. at least as long as you don’t need ocio.

and regarding the „stupidly complicated” part I have a scary/hilarious story: a week or two ago, a post on linkedin. the type of „good practice advice from a professional”. a professional running 3d scanning business I have to mention. so the advice was: to get all your colours correct from 3ds max one should convert all colour input textures to the display icc profile used.

[Pixelcon]

that is in my opinion a good and robust, tried and tested approach in 3ds max. at least as long as you don’t need ocio.

and regarding the „stupidly complicated” part I have a scary/hilarious story: a week or two ago, a post on linkedin. the type of „good practice advice from a professional”. a professional running 3d scanning business I have to mention. so the advice was: to get all your colours correct from 3ds max one should convert all colour input textures to the display icc profile used.

And that doesn't sound illogical, right? Like to 99% of people out there in the digital-creative field would just assume that is correct. I certainly would. You are one of the very few that seem to understand the topic from top-to-bottom...then again maybe you're like this dude on linkedin...