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linear workflow 'reloaded' now online

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  • #31
    Aaah I found something interesting which is bugging me already a long time. When creating my own hdri maps, I always had problems with them being too dark. Seems that hdr shop also works in linear space, and applies a gamma 2.2 when viewing the map (you can change this). So my maps look good in hdr shop, but then in vray they always reflect very dark and if you use them as skylight, it is way too saturated etc...

    So now with this linear workflow, this isn't the case anymore! There's no need to put a color correct on the hdri, since it is created in linear space. That's what I was doing wrong in previous linear workflow tests.

    Here's a small test:

    linear workflow:





    normal workflow:




    Finally no more adjusting GI saturation etc to get red of this excessive saturation and color bleed!

    thanks gijs!
    Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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    • #32
      Wow Flip - that looks great...
      LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
      HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
      Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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      • #33
        Ah,

        glad you got it sorted out. Looks good and the saturation decrease is one of the big advantages when working in linear space.
        You can contact StudioGijs for 3D visualization and 3D modeling related services and on-site training.

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        • #34
          Yeah thanks gijs, you're now officially a hero.

          Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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          • #35
            Thanks, but the honor should go to Rob of course, let's call him the linear space God which makes me a 'linear space jehova's witness'
            You can contact StudioGijs for 3D visualization and 3D modeling related services and on-site training.

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            • #36
              No, because then I would have never listened to you
              Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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              • #37
                Do you apply colorcorrect to your reflect slot (falloff maps in particular) as well?
                LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
                HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
                Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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                • #38
                  Are you asking me? I don't use maps for reflection, only colors and adjust the rest with fresnell IOR, so no, I don't use color correct for it.
                  Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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                  • #39
                    Sorry - the question was meant to be directed towards GIJs.
                    LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
                    HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
                    Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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                    • #40
                      Flipside, I've read all this a thousand times and am trying to comprehend it. I too have had the same saturation problems with hdris created in HDRSHop. So I'm wondering did you change the hdri's gamma in HDRshop (if so how) or did you adjust it in the bitmap loader settings? (if so what settings) Thanks.
                      "A severed foot would make the ultimate stocking stuffer"
                      -Mitch Hedberg

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                      • #41
                        well, since the hdri you create in hdrshop is created in linear space, you don't have to do anything in max if you work in linear space.

                        If you don't use all the linear space stuff, changing the gamma of the hdri with the color correct plugin doesn't give you the same result at all.

                        You cannot change the gamma of a hdri in hdr shop, you need the pro version to do that.

                        i've updated all my hdri images on my site, these renders are now almost 100% straight out of max. Before, I used all kind of tricks to desaturate them and to get balanced lighting.
                        http://www.aversis.be/extra_hdri/app...dy_evening.htm
                        Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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                        • #42
                          The terminolgy in the tutorial is confusing but I think I have some of it sorted out.

                          linear gamma = gamma 1

                          gamma correction = gamma 2.2

                          linear workflow =
                          1.) calibrate monitor to gamma 2.2 and 6500k
                          2.) Set 3dsmax global gamma correction to 2.2 in display and input
                          3.) Adjust diffuse colors or use "color correction plugin"
                          4.) Bitmap gamma will default to global settings but can be changed in the bitmap loader

                          Correct?

                          And the hdrshop (linear) hdri darkness and saturation problem when working in non linear workflow seems to be helped by changing the rgb offset to 0.25 or so. But I fear that doing this compromises the hdri's range. (black is no longer black, at least in the mat editor)
                          "A severed foot would make the ultimate stocking stuffer"
                          -Mitch Hedberg

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                          • #43
                            Yeah. If you do #2 skip #4 as Max will take care of that (for bitmaps that is.)
                            LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
                            HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
                            Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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                            • #44
                              I have another question about using the gamma color mapping and qmc sampling.

                              This image was created in linear space, but with the max vfb. I saved it using the output gamma = 2.2.



                              This one is the same, but rendered with the vray vfb and gamma color mapping (1/0.455). Then saved normally.




                              I can understand that the aa is much better in the second image, because the gamma is already calculated in the image while rendering, creating lighter areas and therefore the sampler can identify the sharp lines and AA them good. In image 1, the sampler doesn't identify these lines in the dark areas because without the gamma correction these regions are very dark.

                              But, with the gamma color mapping, the gamma is baked into the image already, so your not working in linear space anymore. The image is already prepared for viewing at the gamma 2.2 monitor. I thought it was best to leave the image in linear space as long as possible?

                              But as you see, you need much higher qmc sampler settings if you don't use the gamma color mapping, resulting in higher rendertimes.

                              Or is the bad AA a result of doing the gamma=2.2 conversion with the max vfb instead of doing it in photoshop on a 16bit image?

                              I guess I'm a bit confused here. Can anyone clear this out for me?
                              Aversis 3D | Download High Quality HDRI Maps | Vray Tutorials | Free Texture Maps

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                              • #45
                                Those are some very interesting tests. Hmmm . . . guess we'll wait for those in the know to answer!
                                rpc212
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                                "DR or Die!"

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