Vantage .......So how much is it going to be?

[Phillip Miller]

Hi Jan,

Everyone will be given a Vantage 2 license for the duration of their Premium/Enterprise subscription, so if you have multiple years left on your subscription, you will have multiple years for Vantage as well.
You are best to check with your Chaos Reseller about options for early subscription renewals.
Also, for the avoidance of doubt, you will always have the latest Vantage version while you have an active license - I'm just using Vantage 2 here out of convenience because it's release is when it will be sold differently.

Kind regards,

[Phillip Miller]

On this note:

>>I am genuinely intrigued to know why someone would buy Vantage if they did not use Vray in any one of the currently supported DCCs.

We have many users of Vantage that use OBJ or FBOX imports from applications where V-Ray isn't present, like Solidworks, Creo, etc. or they aren't using V-Ray yet in their production (as in Pre-Viz). In doing so, they rely on Cosmos materials or a custom .vrscene as a material library for doing their material assignments within Vantage. We also have Vantage users that obtain their V-Ray in other ways (e.g., as part of SketchUp Studio) and some Corona users that use its V-Ray conversions to reach Vantage.

[owen_mcdonald]

Phil,

How can we speak to our Chaos Reseller when we can't trust what they are going to tell us. Last year, I was told to have access to Vantage, switch to Subscription - so I did. Now I feel like I'm getting 'F'd' for following their advice. As mentioned previously, is there a plan to reduce the cost of the subscription since you're pulling such an integral part of the reason so many people may have switched to the subscription? You mentioned switching back to a non-subscription plan - but I'm sure there will be a cost of having to do that too.

I don't know about other's, but it just kinda gets old with all of these subscriptions we're forced to pay that there has to be a point where enough is enough! I have subscriptions for just about everything I use and now I'm getting ready to get hit with a subscription on top of a subscription. I'm not an endless supply of cash. I know this rant will fall on deaf ears and won't change anything and in the end - I'll be forced to purchase it - and that's what you're counting on. Rant mode off!

Owen

[Phillip Miller]

Hi Owen,

What your Reseller told you was and remains true. Your V-Ray Premium subscription gave/gives you access to Chaos Vantage, and this was the only way to obtain a license for Vantage as of late September 2022. If you had a V-Ray perpetual license when you chose V-Ray Premium, then you still have it for the V-Ray releases it was valid for. My mention of deciding at your subscription renewal what to do with V-Ray was in regards to whether you should renew with either Premium and Solo. Choosing Premium last year doesn't impact your cost of either choice this year. Pricing hasn't been announced yet - just the upcoming change in packaging.

[Phillip Miller]

Hi Everyone,

Everyone that received a message about the upcoming packaging changes for Vantage 2 will be receiving another message early next week that details all the pricing details.

Kind regards,

[charles_messenger]

No I’m sorry this is purely a bait and switch and a cash grab. You guys keep promising updates and upcoming features to Vantage but then say the only way to keep using it is to buy a subscription. I buy a premium subscription, development significantly slows for vantage, and then I’m told it will no longer be included in the subscription I just paid for. That’s not right.

you say I’ll still have access to 1.8 but that’s going to be a dead product.

you use the excuse that customers may want to purchase a vantage only license and not the Vray suite if that’s the case then let them. Do you not do the same thing with Scans? Scans is included in the premium subscription AND it can also be purchased separately for $35 a month.

You are really making it hard for your customers to justify supporting your product with these kinds of business practices. Like others I’m running a business of my own and trying to stay competitive, but it seems like every 6 months there’s a new subscription I have to buy and another price increase. I can’t keep up with this.

I’m going to have to seriously consider if it will be worth it to renew my subscription when it expires.

It may be time to start learning Unreal and Blender at this point.

[doppelgaengerdigital]

that would be very unfortunate, mildly spoken, if you really choose to make vantage a totally seperate subscription and not include it in the premium anymore. What's the deal with having 2 options for purchasing?

I was really hoping for v2 to give me all the things I need for many use cases, cause I was really impressed with vantage. But I totally won't purchase premium for 3 years now, only to having access to vantage, if I don't know what to expect and how it really turns out for me in the end.

Then at least give us users more purchasing options, if this is really important. Like making custom packages. Instead of phoenix, or scans, I would rather opt for vantage.

best
stefan

[glorybound]

$694.80 a year for a premium subscription is really steep, compared to other companies. The small one-man shop is paying less than half that for 3DS MAX. However, I guess it is in line with Adobe's suite of products. Adobe isn't a plug-in for another software; you can create using Adobe products, so it is a little different. Chaos's stuff work inside of other software. IDK, $50 a month, to me and I would assume others, isn't an awful lot of money, considering what you can create with it. Blender seems to be a suitable alternative for users who don't have the cash flow for something like V-Ray, Vantage, Phoenix. Chaos will continue to raise prices until people stop paying. That is how it works.

[T0ofic]

Software as a Service will lead to this awkward situations.
Before it was developers selling licences to customers, now we are beta-testers and consumers. This and the chift of "identity" of the brand... chaos... really? How much did it costs to us?
I'll not start the decade long request "Offer an option to buy CPU AND GPU, two different renders, on their own"
We shall see the price of a decade's worth of developing an not production ready render needing a dedicated hardware.
Cheers

[justin_williams]

I'm in accord with the sentiments expressed here about the shift in subscription models. It's become increasingly noticeable that the once standard practice of owning a perpetual license has shifted towards a more subscription-based model, making it feel somewhat akin to a recurring charge. This was not the case in the past, when we could access our projects indefinitely, even without an active subscription.

The emerging trend seems to be offering free assets or cloud services bundled with subscriptions, ostensibly to enhance the value proposition, but it also serves to keep users dependent on a particular platform. This can be inconvenient if you switch to another software and later need to access a previous project; without an active subscription, you're out of luck. While this might be a niche scenario, it underscores how we, as creators who invest time and resources into these tools, can often feel the pinch of such models.

Initially, I had the impression that Vantage was a part of the pro subscription and would remain so. Having reviewed the correspondence from Chaos, I found no indication that its inclusion was limited to one year. I had adapted many of my workflows to incorporate it, particularly for real-time client interactions, but now it seems that Vantage is aligning more with the D5 render model (which realistically requires a paid subscription, coming in at £360 per annum).

To say this is disappointing would be an understatement.

[T0ofic]

.. Bobby P if he still reads my words despite my sometimes somewhat rude tone.. hum
2 years ago my team was able to render a bunch of 10 years old project for the most part it was pixel perfect(the math had to be perfect in post prod)

It's not worth dedicating the whole pipeline nowadays. Eventhough they peppered it with "free assets".

[fredrik_stre]

Maybe I misunderstood, but.....

I have no problem that Chaos want to sell Vantage as a separate product (for those that can use it without Vray), but why can it not also be part of a package deal like it is today. Yes, it is expensive, but why not make a premium package including everything (or even a pick and choose model). Why do it have to be a separate product only? Like if we choose a full package we will get Vantage to a cheaper price than it will cost separately? I mean the price policy of Chaos is there doing and then we just have to choose if we are able to handle the price or we go for another render. Vray is good, but it is the package deal with Phoenix, Scans, Cosmos and Vantage that gives it a head start. If it gets to difficult, with all kind of confusion subscriptions solutions and no safe future promised we just go back to Arnold (I mean we can of course always go to Blender to get everything free) and use Unity /Unreal for the more quick solutions.

[patryk_pawlak]

so is v-ray solo + ventage going to cost more then v-ray premium now?

[urbanite]

I am guessing that it the point. Still hope there will be some discount for active Vray users, especially in case where non users Vantage were brought to discussion but I would not bet any money on that. Anyway if the price is good I might add it to my vray6 with perpetual license.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Well played Chaos!!! Casino style, cold face poker game.
What an ugly trick on loyal customers for more than a decade :-/
Foul play is very politely said.
You can for sure keep your Vantage. Not laying my finger on it until you get your stuff together again.

So whats next? Phoenix? Incremental payments for every fix?

You have tricked us all to go from perpetual to subscription and now all of the sudden this?

I am out of words. Huge let down.
I sincerely hope people will not fall for this and show you this is not the right way to treat us.