Phoenix for MaYa. iPhone 12 normal size - simulation problem.

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Hey, please check this page for info on the Grid space and Z axis: https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/...arge+Modifiers

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

You setup emits particles only from the bottom two boxes.

This is because the discharge modifier controls how many particles are emitted vertically.

You have 5 boxes in different positions vertically.

You have 6 (SIX) spikes in the discharge modifier diagram.

If a spike is not where a box is vertically, you will not get any particles emitted:

[XavBo]

You setup emits particles only from the bottom two boxes.

Ok. I see your point.

BUT NOW
Even if I dont have any dischargers - Discharger/Source = NONE why I just get 1, only one RBG particle showing ?
The other 4 Sources shows as a smoke.

Do you get my point ?
1 Sim
5 SOurces
1 Discharger with many points
____________________________
Result:

Result 1: With 1 Discharger particles shows from 2 sources.
Result 2: With 0 Discharger particles shows from 1 source.

[XavBo]

You setup emits particles only from the bottom two boxes.

Why is this ?

This is because the discharge modifier controls how many particles are emitted vertically.

If a spike is not where a box is vertically, you will not get any particles emitted:

I already got this.
My point here is:

Why if I dont have any Discharger at all - why I need to create:
4 times more - "Particles Shader" so I can see 5 Times Particles coming out from the 5 sources.
and
4 times more - "Fire (Icon)" so I can see 5 Times Particles coming out from the 5 sources.

So I need to add more icons in my scene and all for every single Source (Cube).
But by using the Discharger and if Im lucky and the Point I added it is close to my Source (Box) then with only 1 Phoenix icon I will have Particles coming from my sources.

So if I use the discharger and my added points are close to my Sources then I have colored Particles.
BUT
If I dont have any Discharger then I need to create a Icon jungle and every single icon needs to be added to a Source. So 5 Particles Shader Icon + 5 Fire Icon need to be connected to 5 Sources and when every single Icon is connected to the Sources (Cubes) then I can see my Particles. All this for 1 Sim Box.



About Dischargers:
For me Position Z is MaYa Axis Z.
What means Position Y in the Dischargers ?
What means Position X in the Dischargers ?

If I select my Sim Box shows me exactly the same axis as the MaYa Axis System.
So ... In my Brain when I read Z is Object Z Direction.
If the Sim has the same exact Z Axis Direction then why Vertically ?

Now I need to test what means Position X and Position Y for the Dischargers.



I need to make again a Video so you see what happens.

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Hey,

Multiple emitters in one Source is supported and working.

Multiple particle systems in one Particle Shader are also supported and working.

When you have trouble understanding your scene, break it down into smaller parts and study them separately. This will help you not only with Phoenix, but with anything else as well

I suggest:

(1) Create a new scene.
(2) Add 1 Simulator, 1 Source, 5 geometries.
(3) Add the 5 geometries in the Source and see that they are all emitting smoke and temperature.
(4) Enable Particles in the Source and simulate - see that all emitters create particles as well.
(5) Then add a Particle Shader. Add all 5 particle systems to the shader's set. Render and verify that all 5 particle systems are being rendered.

Please try this and then we will continue

[XavBo]

Hey,

Multiple emitters in one Source is supported and working.

Multiple particle systems in one Particle Shader are also supported and working.

When you have trouble understanding your scene, break it down into smaller parts and study them separately. This will help you not only with Phoenix, but with anything else as well

I suggest:

(1) Create a new scene.
(2) Add 1 Simulator, 1 Source, 5 geometries.
(3) Add the 5 geometries in the Source and see that they are all emitting smoke and temperature.
(4) Enable Particles in the Source and simulate - see that all emitters create particles as well.
(5) Then add a Particle Shader. Add all 5 particle systems to the shader's set. Render and verify that all 5 particle systems are being rendered.

Please try this and then we will continue

I do always a clean scene when I have a huge trouble that I can understand what is going on
This is the way I work all the time.
As an example are the dischargers in the iPhone case. This is exactly how I understood that every pick needs to be exactly in the source position so the particles or will be emitted from the sources
This is the way I learn and understand things
And that is the way I solve any problem and still not clear why is not RENDERING properly.

I will make a Video so you can see that Im having issues while I render.
But thank for your support !


P.S.: I never ask for help if I didnt make my research and tries at least 3 to 5 days. After that then there is something that I can understand properly or there is a Bug.
This is always my method to try and learn alone
I scape always to ask for help exactly because this ....

After this I will need to do my own test what is exactly Discharger Position X, Position Y and Position Z because still not clear for me. XYZ is among the Object direction and MaYa system axis.
Since 3ds work with the Z Up I guess you are using the same Z Up Axis in MaYa when MaYa has a Y Axis Up.

Can be that is EXACTLY the reason why Position Z for a discharger is getting affected in the Y Axis in MaYa ? Becuase the Z Axis in MaYa is not vertical. It is parallel Axis.

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Alrighty then, if possible, please record a video or send the scene over.

Thanks!

[XavBo]

Alrighty then, if possible, please record a video or send the scene over.

Thanks!

Hi Svetlin,
I know you are mad and angry at me that I respond to this again and I suppose to not understand how things work in Phoenix.
You are totally right. Im new with Phoenix !

I already repeat this many times and I started a new scene and actually you can make the test yourself.

As I already said - I did already create this issue 3 Times and any time is the same result. So I cant tell you what is wrong.

You can have a look into the video under the link below - "All file sources under" .

The file contain also the files which I use to create the last test for the video. The fourth test.
For the discharger file please understand what I mean with XYZ Axis System in MaYa
and not
XYZ Axis System from 3ds max.
The YZ Axis for the "Position Discharger" in the Phoenix Sources are exactly the 3ds max Axis System.
I didnt tried the other ones, but I guess is exactly the same !

All file sources under:
https://www.class-a-strak.com//XBO/C...OBLEMS_BUG.zip



Side Note:
I understand as a developer that get enough of a new Guys, but even if Im new before I post something anywhere I do a EXTREME research.
I dont spam or open threads just like that.

The other test with 5 Emmiters and 5 Sources I didnt make it.
It is a lot of testing and Im not a beta tester or Chaos certificated tester.
I just share the problems I have in my situations.

As you can see I did a lot of tests. (Simulation test, applying test, rendering test, etc...)

OH BTW!
Why if I change the name of my Sources (Boxes) will just add new "Particles of Particles" instead of deleting them.
It can be a huge unused library of "Particles of Particles" (You will see a situation in my example where I change the name from Box_01 to Box_01___NAME_CHANGED).

Wile I change the name to my sources then I need to reconnect them again, because the "Particles of Particles" are connected to the name before.
Ah... you will see in the video.
It becomes really complex and understandable.

Is there a way to delete via script in a Window where I can see all the "Particles of Particles" in my scene so I can delete all the unnecessary "Particles of Particles" ?

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Doooon't worry, it's not easy for me to get mad

So I am first checking your scene:
2021_04_10___Sion_2016___PHFD_TEST___WIND_TUNNEL__ _001___SIM_FAILED_sent_.ma

Your Source emits from all 5 boxed, this is correct.

However, your Particle Shader is connected to just 2 of the 5 particle systems the Source creates from the 5 boxes.

So when I turned off rendering of the Simulator and rendered only the Particle Shader, here is what I get:


This is one mistake you made - you need to plug all five particle systems into the Particle Shader's phxParticle_set1.

Here is how this looks when I added all 5 systems:

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Then, I am checking the second scene:
2021_04_10___Sion_2016___PHFD_TEST___WIND_TUNNEL__ _001___SIM_FAILED_sent___DISCHARGER.ma

Here you are using the Discharge Modifier in Grid space. I will link again the docs on the discharge modifiers because maybe you did not read carefully when I send them to you before:
https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/...ers-Parameters

This time I will point your attention to the part you are missing:



I hope it makes more sense now.

Please ping me if you have any other questions

Cheers!

[XavBo]

And the Discharger Explanation.

2021_04_10___XBO___PHFD_PROBLEMS___FAQ_002___Posit ionZ___PositionY.PNG (2560×1440) (class-a-strak.com)

[XavBo]

WHAT ?!!!!
I didnt saw your comments because I was texting you.

I was expecting an answer on Monday, but not today late night.

Im so sorry that you are here Svetlin !

Let me check your comments.
I just saw the Y and Z issue that you mark in red ...

But really ?
Why MaYa Y up is Z Up in Phoenix.
This is a brain confusion

But now I got it.
Im working with MaYa and other softwares and I will never expect to read that the MaYa Y up is actually a Z Up for Phoenix.
I didnt read that not sorry !

[XavBo]

Doooon't worry, it's not easy for me to get mad

So I am first checking your scene:
2021_04_10___Sion_2016___PHFD_TEST___WIND_TUNNEL__ _001___SIM_FAILED_sent_.ma

Your Source emits from all 5 boxed, this is correct.

However, your Particle Shader is connected to just 2 of the 5 particle systems the Source creates from the 5 boxes.

Hi Svetlin,

Tank you for your support and assessment !
Really appreciate !

This is how a left saved the scene.
If you look into my video, you will see:

1. Connect 1 Source Box to the "Paerticles of Particles"
2. Render and check the results.
2.1 Delete the Sim and recalculate

3. Connect 1 Source Box to the "Paerticles of Particles" with a different names Box_01 with "Particles of Particles"_04 i.e.
4. Render and check the results.
4.1 Delete the Sim and recalculate

5. Make all kind of connections 5 + 5
6. Render and check the results.
6.1 Delete the Sim and recalculate

7. Check how the RGB or the Velocity comes as a render out.
7.1 Delete the Sim and recalculate

So at the end I guess I connect 2 different things and save the file as you received.

So when I turned off rendering of the Simulator and rendered only the Particle Shader, here is what I get:


This is one mistake you made - you need to plug all five particle systems into the Particle Shader's phxParticle_set1.

Here is how this looks when I added all 5 systems:

I already done this.

Perfect we are at this point.

So why is exactly the same thing happening to you ?
Why is just ONE of all the 5 connected Particles rendering as a particles ?

As you can see the other 4 are smokes and not particles.
Now if you apply any Texture to the "Particles Color" then just one come out as a particles and the other will render as a smoke.

What Im looking for here is to have 5 Source Boxes using only 1 "Particle Color "
This should have a combination of one RGB and one Velocity as and Output.

Just EXACTLY as your Video here:
https://youtu.be/9OoHgHmaGFM?t=1230

How do you get the combination of this 2 (RGB + Velocity) ? (2x PhoenixFDParticleTexture) (1 RGB PhoenixFDParticleTexture multiply with 1 Velocity PhoenixFDParticleTexture)
At the moment I havent make it work at all.
The Velocity will never calculate. Is this maybe because was a duplicate of the other "PhoenixFDParticleTexture" ?

[XavBo]

Tis is what I have achieve, but it is a lot of connecting and managing.
If this is the way to do it I dont know, but it is aaaaaaa LOT to do.

At the end I can change for all the 5 sources the Particles Color which is cool !
The only messy thing is that I need to connect everything by hand and are 3 steps to do.
1. Connect the particles
2. Connect the Sources
3 Connect the proper PhoenixFDParticleTexture to each "Particle Shader" (OOPS! I called until now "Particles Color")

And As I said for any reason I can get run the the "Velocity" from the "PhoenixFDParticleTexture" / Color from Particle Channel / Use Color From Particle Channel as a velocity.
Kind of weird.

Tis is the result I look forward to have with only one:
"Particle Shader"
"PhoenixFDSource"
and 5 Sources (Boxes)

2021_04_10___XBO___PHFD___RGB_PROBLEMS___FAQ_003__ _01___sent.PNG (2560×1440) (class-a-strak.com)

This is my work around and as I said Im not sure if this is correct.


And why any Time I change the name of the Sources will be create a new "Particles of Particles" ?
2021_04_10___XBO___PHFD___RGB_PROBLEMS___FAQ_003__ _02___sent.PNG (772×200) (class-a-strak.com)

After having a lot of "Particles of Particles" then I dont know which one to connect.
Fortunately enough I found a way to rename the Sources so now I know how to connect every single "Particles of Particles" properly.
But I dont know.
If I will never find this I will lost with all those "Particles of Particles" that Phoenix Create.

OH !
HOLD ON !
Now Im texting you this.
It is a different "Particles of Particles" created for the Velocity and this is the reason I dont see the Velocity in the render ?
I need to chack this too.

[XavBo]

Then, I am checking the second scene:
2021_04_10___Sion_2016___PHFD_TEST___WIND_TUNNEL__ _001___SIM_FAILED_sent___DISCHARGER.ma

Here you are using the Discharge Modifier in Grid space. I will link again the docs on the discharge modifiers because maybe you did not read carefully when I send them to you before:
https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/...ers-Parameters

This time I will point your attention to the part you are missing:



I hope it makes more sense now.

Please ping me if you have any other questions

Cheers!

Is there a way to add a remainder to this when we create a Sim ?
Maybe not everyone knows about it. I dont know.
Sorry, but I want to point out, that I will never ever expect this since the Sim selection orientation in Worl or Object mode is exactly as the MaYa Axis System.
Well this is just an Idea. Now I know about it and I will be careful and train my brain
You could add a note in the Sim like the other Phoenix icons "Particle Shader" "Sources" "Plain Force" "etc" ... that is attached and moves with the Sim.