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Scale parameter for all PHX objects with icons

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  • Scale parameter for all PHX objects with icons

    Hi,

    I would like to see viewport scale parameter added to every single PhoenixFD object that has a viewport icon. In 3ds Max, it is never obvious if scaling of the object will actually multiply some of its parameters. In case of PhoenixFD I believe it should not, but most of the artists adopted the practice of not touching the scale of an object unless it is absolutely necessary. It always throws huge amount of depressing uncertainty if I have to scale something that is not supposed to be scaled, like a light or a helper, because I don't know if some weird kink won't throw off something else in the scene.

    Also, 3ds Max viewport often tends to glitch out when objects have too large or too small scale value, regardless of their actual physical size in the scene. So 1mm^3 cube scaled to 1m^3 by setting scale to 100000% cube will show you a lot of ugly Z fighting artifacts while cube of same size with 100% scale won't.

    Now, the issue with PhoenixFD is that once you create a helper, let's say PHXSource or PHXFoam, you have only one chance to set the scale, when initially dragging out the gizmo into the scene. Once you do, and want to change scale of that icon, your only option is to scale the helper object, and here the uncertainty comes. For example, I just got access to nightly builds, and when I opened my scene created with official PhoenixFD release, my turbulence force in the scene was super tiny, like 1 pixel wide. So I had to scale it up to like 500000% scale to see it, and now the viewport glitches out a little bit. Only other way to fix this is to delete the helper, and re-setup it from scratch. This is especially painful if it has complex dependencies and some keyframes. I am also still not sure if scaling it did not mess something up, for example if scale doesn't somehow multiply turbulence size parameter or something.

    So I would like to ask for a simple parameter for every PhoenixFD object which is represented with a flat icon, that will simply set its absolute size in world units while keeping object's scale at 100%. All the native 3ds Max forces, deflectorts, particle systems and such have this parameter, so it would be appropriate to honor this 3ds Max standard.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by LudvikKoutny; 30-01-2017, 08:22 AM.

  • #2
    In fact, it DID multiply the turbulence size, but we changed it

    You can manually change the scale of a helper using maxscript - each helper would have either an 'iconsize', or a 'size' parameter you can tweak. I think you would have such scale-converting issues only with the Turbulence if you've used it in old scenes, but we could fit a global scale in the Phoenix prefs dialogue as well, next to the 'billboarding' option

    Cheers!
    Svetlin Nikolov, Ex Phoenix team lead

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    • #3
      Originally posted by a0121536 View Post
      In fact, it DID multiply the turbulence size, but we changed it

      You can manually change the scale of a helper using maxscript - each helper would have either an 'iconsize', or a 'size' parameter you can tweak. I think you would have such scale-converting issues only with the Turbulence if you've used it in old scenes, but we could fit a global scale in the Phoenix prefs dialogue as well, next to the 'billboarding' option

      Cheers!
      Heh, if it did multiply turbulence size, then that's even scarier

      While I would like per-object one, I do realize that UI space is very expensive and there's already lots of stuff there, so I will settle for global one too. Just to make sure, it should be absolute, not multiplier, otherwise problem would remain. You still could drag out one PHXSource to be very tiny when you create it, and other one to be very huge.

      Most of native Max forces, helpers and particle systems always simply have a conveniently named Icon Size parameter

      BTW, is there anything else that gets affected by scale on any of the PHX forces or helpers? For example could Particle Shader scaling affect like point radius, motion blur step, size limit or something?

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      • #4
        The other ones should be more intuitive - scaling the simulators or scaling the PRTReader would scale their content, but you would be able to see that in the viewport and you'd know something's happening, unlike the Turbulence...
        Svetlin Nikolov, Ex Phoenix team lead

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        • #5
          Okay, great. I would expect the simulator to actually scale. I am referring more to those with two dimensional icons. Like if it's safe to scale for example Particle Shader or PHXSource Or if scaling of ParamMod could not make something go wrong

          I would just love to keep all my PHX objects scaled at 100% so I can be 100% certain nothing can go wrong in this way, while at the same time have control over how large they are displayed in the viewport. I will resort to Maxscript for now, but I am looking forward to some more convenient way

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          • #6
            No, no, I hope we don't let any other under-the-counter stuff like scaling the Turbulence in the software anymore Adding the size option to the TODO list...
            Svetlin Nikolov, Ex Phoenix team lead

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            • #7
              Looking forward to it.

              By the way, I am currently trying to change .iconsize parameter of Turbulence force via MXS, but it does not seem to have any effect. :/ Other parameters work correctly, but this one just does not. Testing it on latest nightly.

              Also, one more thing, does rotation of the Turbulence icon affect rotation of the turbulence noise, or is it in world space? Intuitively, I would expect it to be world space, since I have billboard mode disabled, and I want to rotate helper icons to face my camera view. But now I am not sure if I rotated the turbulence field with it.

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              • #8
                Little update on the .iconsize MXS paramter. It seems to update, but only when I create new PhoenixFD object. So if I change .iconsize paramter, I do not see change until some new PhoenixFD scene node is created, which somehow immediately forces size update of the old nodes. Weird

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                • #9
                  Hey,

                  The turbulence should take into account only the position when you have Decay enabled. The rotation of the node should not matter, and the rotation of the icon - whether billboarded or not, is just a display thing and it's not related.

                  Thanks for the report on the icon size! Seems like it would update only on creation or when you save the scene and reload it - the rest of the time it's cached. This would be an easy fix and will be in the nightlies soon.

                  Cheers!
                  Svetlin Nikolov, Ex Phoenix team lead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by a0121536 View Post
                    Hey,
                    Thanks for the report on the icon size! Seems like it would update only on creation or when you save the scene and reload it - the rest of the time it's cached. This would be an easy fix and will be in the nightlies soon.

                    Cheers!
                    Thanks! Will be happy to test it out once it's out.

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