Upgrade costs for Vray 5 / increase in the last 6 years

[Karonte]

Hello, My name is Aleksander Yankov and I`m from the Chaos Sales team (EMEA region),

I understand your point having to pay for two uprades, in order to get to the V-Ray 5 version. However, you cannot skip a version upgrading your licenses. You need to first upgrade your V-Ray 3 to V-Ray Next, and then, whenever you decide to move to V-Ray 5 - to upgrade from V-Ray Next to V-Ray 5. You cannot get from V-Ray 3 to V-Ray 5 with only one upgrade (because this is two versions difference).


Let me know if you need any additional assistance at aleksander.yankov@chaosgroup.com - I`d be happy to help!

That is clear. But I purchase 4 licences "2 WEEKS" before next5. And a grace period was expected ( also in COVID times). I tried the demo and thought it will be released at the end of the year or first 2021... not after 2 weeks of beta! I'm a customer since the beginning and I ( and many 3d artist friends) think you are going in the wrong way with this politics. I know money are money but also customer care is important. Regards.

[dean_dmoo]

That is clear. But I purchase 4 licences "2 WEEKS" before next5. And a grace period was expected ( also in COVID times). I tried the demo and thought it will be released at the end of the year or first 2021... not after 2 weeks of beta! I'm a customer since the beginning and I ( and many 3d artist friends) think you are going in the wrong way with this politics. I know money are money but also customer care is important. Regards.

But surely it was your choice to upgrade within 2 weeks? I understand your frustration, but if you could wait 2 years for next, the same could be applied to 5. If you were fine with it being available in 2021 you could have just bought it then and spread out the financial hit.

Essentially we are all paying the same, whether you upgrade directly, 6 months after release or 2 years after release.

[roboxx]

I am not sure what you expected to be honest.

Well, at least i would expect someone to explain the massive price steps for the last two vray releases ( 4 and 5 and especially for the render nodes !!) and which price raises i have to expect for the next releases. Also i would like to know the planned major release cycles for the future, so i can estimate, if upgrading / continuing a perpetual license makes sense.
In worst case scenario we are getting in the future a new "major" release every year like Autodesk does with 3dsmax, which have less new features but will cost the same or more.
And finally i still would like to know if there are any plans for an Indie license or some sort of discounts for small freelancer renderfarmes ( i.e. up to 10 rendernodes ). But to be honest after following the progress of this thread in the last weeks, i don`t expect to get a reliable answer on this from the officials, propably they just don`t care about it.

[JezUK]

I haven't purchased V-Ray 5. For the first time ever with V-Ray, I'm holding out and weighing up my options. Maybe Chaos don't care about their old customers, maybe it's only looking forward to capturing the new, young ones....

So I'm looking to just keeping what I've got (V-Ray Next) as well as looking at other renderers for the future, Not because I dislike V-Ray, etc, but because I prefer to keep options open, there's . enough Render Engine choice out there now - and it's prudent (for some of us who are small and not totally invested in one product or another) to not put all our eggs in one basket - it makes more sense and I like learning new software anyway.

But the way software is developing these days, and this is not just with Chaos but generally as I see it, is there seems this new trend of almost expecting paying customers to become their source of some kind of 'beta' tester, reporting bugs and suggesting ways that they as a company can improve their own product. It feels like we're paying them for the privilege to not only *rent* their software, but to also be their unpaid advisor. Seems the tables are turning and it's a case of too much take and not enough give and I cannot think of many other (or indeed any other) industry where such behaviour is exhibited/expected/tolerated.

It's sad.

PS - I too have noticed Chaos going quiet and not answering totally valid questions from long standing (I'd have thought *valued*) customers..... (like my question recently regarding that apparently it is now stated in the software Eula agreement that it is not permitted to resell node licences - my question was 'when was this new policy introduced').

[olly]

I haven't purchased V-Ray 5. For the first time ever with V-Ray, I'm holding out and weighing up my options..

Same here Jez - I never thought I would be considering not upgrading VRay, but here I am.

The recent hotfix for VRay 5 still leaves a lot to do before I could consider it out of beta.
You just have to look through the forum to see the number of issues with 5 being posted publicly, and I am sure as many being raised with support by email, to see it is not ready for production.

Maybe there was a poor sign up for the actual beta so now we are expected to pay to be beta testers...

[bartel]

Can't say I've been paying much attention and I'm not a hardcore V-Ray user, but I was surprised that 5 is already out, and not surprised in a positive way. Next was already released with all kinds of small issues and while support/response is usually swift, it did feel a bit betaish. Which could be balanced out by a longer product life cycle to a certain degree. Now it seems like 5 was rushed out the door (no personal experience with 5, though).

Halfing the product life cycle means a doubling of the price, plus additional price increases.

[glorybound]

I don't know guys, V-Ray 5 has been well worth it for me and I am not seeing any bugs. What bugs are you referring too?

[ivan.daskalov]

Hi Robin, all,

I understand your frustration with the increased pricing of our products. I am also forwarding your feedback to the relevant teams here at the company, so we really do take into consideration what you feel about our licensing and pricing policies.

As I previously wrote in the beginning of this thread, a main reason for the price changes is our increased investment in the development of our products.
We are currently having a major release cycle of around 1.5-2 years, and we are truly dedicated to ensuring each new major version of our products contains significant improvements and great new features.
There is no information about upcoming releases of indie versions of V-Ray, but I hope that at some point in the future we'll have offerings that better meet the needs and budget of freelancers.

Jez, I'd like to also mention that it is possible for perpetual V-Ray / V-Ray Render Node licenses to be resold to a third-party. You can contact sales@chaosgroup.com for any inquiries related to that.

Thank you,

Kind regards,

Ivan

[racoonart]

We are currently having a major release cycle of around 1.5-2 years, and we are truly dedicated to ensuring each new major version of our products contains significant improvements and great new features.

I was going to bite the bullet and upgrade Next to 5 but hearing that there could be another full paid upgrade in 1.5 years is just too much. 2 years was already hard to swallow, but this is getting out of hand. I simply can't afford that (which is my problem, I get that). It's my own license so this will have to end here but I'm also not sure how my studio is going to react to that, we already postponed the 5 upgrade to a later date because it's a considerable chunk of money, especially right now.

[JezUK]

Thanks Ivan for answering my question (it was something I'd seen said by a colleague from Chaos on a different thread).

Can you answer please (because I've never skipped a V-Ray version before) but if I stick with V-Ray Next for now, skip V-Ray 5, and upgrade to V-Ray 6 (presumably) when that comes out, what is the typical position Chaos take with regards to that situation ? a) is it possible ? and b) is there some payment penalty incurred (i.e. does it work out more expensive or exactly the same price as if you'd have just paid and had V-Ray 5 anyway ?).

Personally, I cannot wrap my head around upgrading every 1.5-2 years, that's simply too short and reminds me too much of the headaches experienced thanks to the madness served up by Autodesk & 3DS Max.

Many thanks.

[glorybound]

I think Chaos made it clear, you can't skip releases unless I misunderstood. I have been reading some scathing posts from larger architectural firms about how Autodesk is failing them with Revit. The complaint is basically, the price keeps going up, but there are no innovations at all and just incremental changes without bugs being fixed. Sorry, sidetracked the thread.

[ivan.daskalov]

Hi Jez, Bobby,

As our upgrade policy currently is, you can upgrade to a perpetual license of the latest V-Ray version only if you have a perpetual license of the previous (-1) version. In other words, currently upgrades to V-Ray 5 perpetual license are only possible from V-Ray Next perpetual licenses. And the upgrade costs 50% of the new purchase price for a perpetual license.
Currently, users that have V-Ray 3 perpetual licenses (version -2) cannot upgrade directly to V-Ray 5 perpetual license. What they can do is purchase a new V-Ray 5 perpetual license at full price and upgrade this way.

What we also offer is our trade-in promo that allows V-Ray 3 for 3ds Max and V-Ray 3 Render Node users to move to annual licensing, which basically enables them to upgrade directly to using V-Ray 5. With this offer users also get 20% discount on the first year of the annual license. Taking into consideration the shortened release cycles, we recommend moving to annual licenses as the most cost-effective solution for customers who wish to use the latest V-Ray technology. Still, we fully understand the concerns you have in regard to annual licenses.

Jez, as we are continuously evaluating our policies, I could not be able to predict if this current set of upgrade options and rules will be the same in 1.5/2 years when V-Ray 6 for 3ds Max will probably be released. What I do know for sure is that we are listening to your voice and considering how we can make our future offerings more suitable to the needs and budget of freelancers and smaller studios.

Kind regards,

Ivan

[jamesf73]

users that have V-Ray 3 perpetual licenses (version -2) cannot upgrade directly to V-Ray 5 perpetual license. What they can do is purchase a new V-Ray 5 perpetual license at full price and upgrade this way.

that is an amazing offer! Chaos Group must have had to dig deep to offer that kind of deal!

[^Lele^]

that is an amazing offer! Chaos Group must have had to dig deep to offer that kind of deal!

Do you have a specific offer in mind, from someone else for a version gap of 2, and a time period of ~seven years, to compare?

[jamesf73]

Do you have a specific offer in mind, from someone else for a version gap of 2, and a time period of ~seven years, to compare?

you know what, I actually don't. but just buying a whole new set of perpetual licenses just seems downright mean. We're a small studio with a small renderfarm, and to upgrade to the latest version of Vray will cost us thousands. In the salad days we would be able to suck it up and still make a yearly profit; but what with Covid19 and Brexit we are struggling to keep our heads above water, so we're at a point where we will have to stick with what we've got or look for a different renderer.