Upgrade costs for Vray 5 / increase in the last 6 years

[JezUK]

Hi Jez, Bobby,

Jez, as we are continuously evaluating our policies, I could not be able to predict if this current set of upgrade options and rules will be the same in 1.5/2 years when V-Ray 6 for 3ds Max will probably be released. What I do know for sure is that we are listening to your voice and considering how we can make our future offerings more suitable to the needs and budget of freelancers and smaller studios.

Kind regards,

Ivan

Thank you Ivan, I appreciate that we are being heard and what you say sounds very promising, i am genuinely hopeful that the good people at Chaos will do all they can to make this work for all.

Fingers crossed it’ll be something along the lines of an affordable and reasonably priced Indie Licence type solution that’ll make upgrading every 1.5 - 2 years, not only acceptable, but an exciting proposition to look forward to.

Currently, as it stands for users like me, i.e. one-man-outfits (since version 1.5), upgrading V-Ray isn't that at all.

I am hopeful that this will all be resolved

[francomanko]

Hi Robin, all,

a main reason for the price changes is our increased investment in the development of our products.

Having just used vray next with cuda for a project, seeing basic bugs reported in 3.6 still in there, and the experience being flakey as hell...just not feeling that statement in all honesty.

[^Lele^]

you know what, I actually don't. but just buying a whole new set of perpetual licenses just seems downright mean. We're a small studio with a small renderfarm, and to upgrade to the latest version of Vray will cost us thousands. In the salad days we would be able to suck it up and still make a yearly profit; but what with Covid19 and Brexit we are struggling to keep our heads above water, so we're at a point where we will have to stick with what we've got or look for a different renderer.

That's however crucial: V-Ray 3 was out in 2013.
7 years, and a major release in between, have since elapsed as opportunities to upgrade for cheaper.
One is entitled not to do so, but can't then expect us to shoulder seven years of development and support, and be thrown a discount to go with it: we simply can't afford it.

We cannot control politics, nor individual studios' business practices and conditions or individual clients' personal expectations, and we suffer pandemics just like any other business.

As such, calling greed, specifically on this, I personally find quite unfair.
Alas, i'll go back to my cave now: not my debate to take part in.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

As such, calling greed, specifically on this, I personally find quite unfair.
Alas, i'll go back to my cave now: not my debate to take part in.

I am not surprised u see this as an unfair statement. I dont understand where people get the balls to say this after so many years of developement and bringing features and stability to users who made their living on using Vray.

---
IMHO

Seems like "Covid-19" ans "Brexit" are new enchantment words used lately for whatever bloody reason to excuse just about anything.

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade. Next has plenty features and no one is saying anything about the end of its support. Why not use that then?

Do i go to cars dealer where they sell Mercs and whine that its too expensive for me or call them greedy if i dont get discount? No, i simply dont visit such places and instead buy a cheaper ride. If it gets the job done? Why not?

Give it 5-10 years and were all gonig to be on subscription anyway guys. Maybe the Blender users wont but they will be paying for plugins too dont worry. Sooner or later.

Heck, we might even start paying subscription for breathing cleaner air or cleaner water. Thats just the way it is and how the world evolves.

[Joelaff]

Obviously upgrading from 3 to 5 should cost more than from 4(next) to 5.

However, 3 users built the foundation by buying in years ago. Without these users there would be no Chaos, no 4, no 5.

3 users who have yet to upgrade did not get to use 4 at all. This is their penance for not buying 4.

Reasonable in my mind is that 3 to 5 would be 20-25% off of a new license. Reward your existing customers, especially your oldest customers who are likely to stick around.

Of course we couldn’t wait and went full subscription, which is perhaps the goal. The Vray Collection is a nice offering, and properly priced. The perpetual upgrade from 3 to 5 and the render nodes subscription costs are what I think are above market value.

Of course Chaos is one of the most responsive companies, which add a lot of value.

[francomanko]

Heck, we might even start paying subscription for breathing cleaner air or cleaner water. Thats just the way it is and how the world evolves.

Yeah well maybe we will if people dont take issue with it.

[trick]

...Do i go to cars dealer where they sell Mercs and whine that its too expensive for me or call them greedy if i dont get discount? No, i simply dont visit such places and instead buy a cheaper ride. If it gets the job done? Why not?...

Ah, yes...the car analogy
The thing is I always thought I bought a solid Toyota...lots of features, not too many bells and whistles and never any problems! And suddenly I am presented a Merc, more features more often, but also more bells and whistles and therefore more garage time!! Perception is everything they say.

[^Lele^]

However, 3 users built the foundation by buying in years ago. Without these users there would be no Chaos, no 4, no 5.

Users got a product which enabled them to produce top-notch work.
Followed by *five years* of free updates, containing a metric ton of new features many times worth a major release.
A product which works to this day, and will for a while still.
I know, for i was one such user.

I'd think any reasonable look taken at our history speaks of commitment, abnegation and dependability: twisting it as if we were gifted something is churlish, and i find it quite belittling of our labour.

[Joelaff]

Users got a product which enabled them to produce top-notch work.
Followed by *five years* of free updates, containing a metric ton of new features many times worth a major release.
A product which works to this day, and will for a while still.
I know, for i was one such user.

I'd think any reasonable look taken at our history speaks of commitment, abnegation and dependability: twisting it as if we were gifted something is churlish, and i find it quite belittling of our labour.

No doubt users did get a good product with VRay3. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.

Nor is anyone arguing Chaos was "gifted" anything. They were rewarded for producing a great product at a great price, and providing excellent support. This remuneration led to the expansion. "If you build it they will come." Chaos built it. We users came. Chaos expanded. Chaos made improvements in terms of new verisons. Each step is contingent upon the prior step. These are good things.

The idea is that the early V3 users might be rewarded for their loyalty and early support.

It's your product. You offer it at a price you think works. If people don't want it for that price they will look elsewhere. If people feel slighted by the lack of a discount for going from V3 to V5 they will look elsewhere too. We decided it was worth it and went subscription with V5. Others may not feel the same.

Some people may find the lack of any sort of discount for going from V3 to V5 quite belittling of their support of the product. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is churlish, though

[glorybound]

Everything is going subscription, I mean everything. I purchased a dash cam last year and I paid top dollar. A few months ago they decided that they are going to change to subscription and brick everyone's camera who doesn't subscribe. My wife purchased a prescription drug dispenser and you got it, it is bricked unless you pay a monthly subscription.

What I have been reading about V-Ray 5 is, it is a catchup to Corona and Corona is less expensive, so why are people paying it.

[sebbiej]

Would anyone know if I'd be able to upgrade my V-Ray 3 Render Node licences directly to V-Ray 5?

My workstation licence is on Next, and I've got 4 render node licences that I don't use... But I don't really want to see them get left behind, either. I've heard from Escape Technology that I've got until September to get these upgraded to next or else that path is closed off, which could basically end up costing me double to get Render Nodes in the future.

So far it's going to be £640 to upgrade these to next, but then I don't particularly want to be charged yet again immediately to upgrade these to 5!

[dean_dmoo]

It is likely to be the same as everything else. Either upgrade twice (to Next and then to 5) or just buy new rendernode licenses for 5.

[sebbiej]

Well, that sucks. Cheers for the info though! Unless there's some massive speed difference in V-Ray 5 then I'll probably just stick with Next.

[sebbiej]

Ok, so this answered my question. I think it's a bit annoying how either I'll have to pay double to get my V-Ray 3 render node licenses up to date with V-Ray 5 (via Next), or be pushed to move them to subscription-only. At the moment I'm using V-Ray for the odd bit of freelance work at home, I've got 4 render-node licenses that I don't currently use but I'd like to ideally hang on to them so that potentially in future I can use them.

I know that Chaos is a business, but it's a shame that they don't treat customers like Pixologic do whereby a license is yours for life and upgradable throughout. Charging customers, especially small freelancers, with £1000+ odd upgrade bills every 2 years is a bit of a killer.

[JezUK]

Ok, so this answered my question. I think it's a bit annoying how either I'll have to pay double to get my V-Ray 3 render node licenses up to date with V-Ray 5 (via Next), or be pushed to move them to subscription-only. At the moment I'm using V-Ray for the odd bit of freelance work at home, I've got 4 render-node licenses that I don't currently use but I'd like to ideally hang on to them so that potentially in future I can use them.

I know that Chaos is a business, but it's a shame that they don't treat customers like Pixologic do whereby a license is yours for life and upgradable throughout. Charging customers, especially small freelancers, with £1000+ odd upgrade bills every 2 years is a bit of a killer.

I kinda tend to agree. It's kinda like you have to pay for life. To keep filling the meter......and back date the meter payments even if you didn't use the commodity. Sometimes in life we have other priorities and can't afford something and we just need a break from paying for something, so it's totally normal to skip a version. Why therefore must we pay for that skipped version, we never had it ? Seems pretty punitive. Okay, penalise us an amount, but not the full amount. You'd still be getting something 'for nothing' from a valued customer, rather than pissing them off and making them think of going elsewhere.

I can't say my answer is the answer because quite honestly I don't have the time to think of a perfect one but I'm sure the clever people at Chaos can find it if they tried.

There must be a better solution.