V-Ray wizzard - request for contribution

[TRGraphics]

I think we all know that this type of high level pre-programming is coming. It will eventually be in everything we use to make a living in this business. I just want it to be after I retire! I turn fifty next month so vlado, give it a few more years for us old guys. hehe

Call me old fashioned, but I believe you should have to work hard to get ahead in any business, including this one. I am fortunate in that I love what I do for a living and I want to protect that from pencil jocks as long as I can. I guess I'm selfish that way.

I've been around long enough to have seen the first space capsule go into space live on my folks 20" black and white tv. I've seen technology grow by leaps and bounds that no one could possibly have predicted. The day we've been discussing is coming and I don't really fear it, I just want it to waite a few more years.

I also believe that talent is very important in what we do and you can't program that into a button. But, there are a lot of firms that believe "good enough" is just that, good enough. I deal with it often in trying to get new clients. The easier software is to use out of the box, the lower the value is of the person using it. That's just a fact.

I don't have a boss that just drops work on my desk and says do this. I have to hustle for my work, just as a lot of people here do. And that's my choice. I prefer to work for myself. The more advantages I have, the better for me. And when it gets right down to it, that's who I'm concerned about in this business, me.

Oh well, enough of my bullshit.

Tony

[flipside]

The bottom line of 3d viz is that you want to produce nice images. So the talent lies in color choices, lighting setup, material creation and composition. These are things the wizard will never do for you. So many talented people who don't use vray now because they get scared of all the speed optimizations, will finally be able to use vray. I don't think you need to be talented to set all the parameters that the wizard will do for you, you simply need training.

[lukx]

I agree with Tricky and TRGraphics. This is the same thing as with this vray materials program. At first it is nice idea but soon we all will get from our clients something like "comon you want to much for this project I know the guy who do it in few clicks so why you charge so much." and he will go to this cheapier guy whu got this one click button software. But I guess this is how this world works everyone want easy, fast and cheap way of doing money.

[djembe]

Up until the mid 1800's, oil painters had to make their own paints by grinding and mixing dry pigment powders with linseed oil.
I suspect a large number of talented, established oil painters of that time found the increasing availability of premixed paints in tubes to be offensive to their careers and to devalue their skills.

The impressionist painters had no such biases and readily adopted the new paint tubes.

[joconnell]

It was the same with the web industry when the entire thing went down. Everyone was saying that they were a web designer with some people charging thousands, others charging a few hundred so as you mentioned, people started asking "why are we paying all this money when the other guy can do this far cheaper?". The clients buying peoples services weren't smart enough as regards 3d to see the difference between good work and bad work so the good companies lost a lot of their small work to people making sites from their bedrooms with frontpage or ms word. You either have to educate your clients about the difference between good work and bad work or alternatively try and get clients who are sophisticated enough to know the difference already.

As myself and flipside mentioned, the major difference will be artistic choices rather than settings so you should be able to win out on that.

[tricky]

Good points raised here. My thoughts are swaying. It is definately 'the way the world works' and you can't really stop that. Client education is key also - many of our clients don't know what makes a good image from a bad one, and this is our main worry. We often don't get a chance to educate them as much of the work is done without ever meeting our clients. We will just need to adapt. Again!

Business is never easy.

[glyph]

In my opinion you get repeat work because a client likes you and your professional attitude to your work - you do the best you can and your experience counts
I'm the same age as TRG... progress is unstoppable

I really don't think a wizard will be a magic button - it may get you 80% of the way there more quickly - so it raises the bar - that's good all round

[dlparisi]

I really don't think a wizard will be a magic button - it may get you 80% of the way there more quickly

Despite Vlado's skill at programming, I don't think it will be a magic button too, but something more along the lines of the presets in the IMap Options. It'll be a great help for setting something up quickly but as we all know we quickly depart from these presets depending on the scene and what we are trying to do (testing materials, lighting, animations, small image vs. large image, etc.) I believe there are really too many variables to get a top quality image that can't be programed (i.e. texture quality, lighting setup, materials, modeling). If the wizard helps me get my renders done quicker, I'm all for it. That it helps everyone else as well I don't really care.

I guess what I'm saying is that I just think the bar will be raised across the board. Years ago clients were happy with just a wireframe drawing of the 3D model, then a shaded view, then a raytraced view, then a GI render. What's next is up to us.

[dellis]

Its all about the work you do...the end product....how you get to it should be unimportant or at least transparent to the client. I can't see how having a tool that would allow you to be more efficient and effective could hurt the ability to compete....that's just me though. Its a good idea Vlado. Anything that can take some of the grunt work out of setting up scenes is a good thing. My hope would be that this could be an educational tool as well. It would be nice to go through the wizard for different scenarios and see where the settings changed and be able to output a settings breakdown for comparison sake. My problem all along, and i think some might agree, is understanding all the settings and how they relate to each other.

Looking forward to this.....again...its a good idea Vlado. Keep up the good work.

[flipside]

I really don't get it. Can't you see you're already using a lot of easy software yourself, where 10 years ago you needed a programmer to make it work? I mean just take your OS and how programs work today! I really can't believe these complaints. If you think that speeding up the scene setup time will get you to loose clients, I think you're handling your job wrong. Even with the simplest and best combo of settings, this doesn't garantee a good image! BTW, if we would have faster pc's today, this whole wizard thing wouldn't even be necessary, because you could just use ppt and render every high res still in 10 minutes. So maybe complain about CPU speed increases too, because there will be a day that a todays render will only take a minute, and oh no, you spent so many time setting up a render farm and now all this knowledge isn't necessary anymore. There are way more other treats to your job than a vray wizard!

Do you ever use the ir map presets?? I don't, because I can always set it up better. But it did help me understand the software. Same for the wizard, it won't help us but it will help new users.

[TRGraphics]

Flipside, chill out man. I guess you must have missed the in my posts.

I am curious however, have you ever worked for yourself, fulltime freelance for a long period of time?

In case your wondering, I work an average of 60 hours a week doing this freelance. So someone out there must like what I'm doing and how I do it.

Tony

[rpc212]

Well, I am no longer a fence sitter.

I think you should do it Vlado! It will only make time for more important tasks and at least help setup even if one has to change settings at least it will get a scene so far saving time. That can only be a good thing!

Keep up the great work!

[Da_elf]

only humpty dumpty sat on the wall. and look where that got him. however im sure he sure did think the grass was always softer on the other side huh hehe

[flipside]

Hey Tony!

I wasn't directly attacking you, it was a general feeling I had towards the negative responses regarding the wizard. Just because I think that the reasons given are really not valid. If the wizard would set up lighting and apply materials to all your objects etc all for you, then yes, I can understand the point of losing clients.

[img]So someone out there must like what I'm doing and how I do it.[/img]
Well then don't worry about losing clients, If they like what you're doing, they will come back, and new clients will find you instead of you finding them.

And yes, I work freelance on a full time basis, just completed my first year. So not for a long period of time, since I just started
(and I didn't forget how you helped me out in the beginning!! )

[TRGraphics]

No offense taken Flipside and I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone with my point of view.

I don't disagree with what everyone here is saying. Technology is marching forward and we move with it or we perish. I get that and will do just as everyone else, adapt to the changing future, find new and better ways to make our work standout in the crowd. What choice do we have and it does keep things interesting!

However, I still believe and always will, that there's no subsitute for hard work and experience. I just wish all of our clients felt the same way.

Tony