Velvet...Vlado?

[winberg]

After looking at your ref picture, I would say that you can achieve the same effect by mixing to materials with different glossy and strenght values..

-Tom

[rpc212]

Aren't airline seats covered with polyester? They'd be pretty expensive to cover with velvet!

[chicoone]

Maybe this post may give an idea:
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpB...abric&start=25

Ismael

[thablanch]

Nothing to do with the velvet...
But I have to say that this fabric is really ugly (I mean the selection, not the rendering / shader)

[meanadam]

That is totally falloff. Look at the pictures....

Look again at Linda's pillow.

[flipside]

I think the finalrender velvet is also done with falloffs, only the controls are located in the material instead of in a seperate map.

The effect on velvet and almost any other fabric is falloff, it behaves exactly like that. It's no more than a lot of tiny hairs that are reflective and translucent, and if you look at a great angle you see more hairs and less of the underlying fabric, so it gets more white (=light).

If you want it real you should use very thin fur with translucency and glossiness, but that would be crazy!

[flipside]

Here's a small test:

Fur:



Falloff map in diffuse, and small noise map for bump:


The falloff behaves exactly the same, only it render about 20 times faster...

[jujubee]

Nice one Flipside. But for some reason (going back to his post and mine), N6 mentioned he tried that and for some reason doesn't want that as a solution...

[Adam H. Stewart]

Not Velvet

My undergrade was in Fashion - I used to work in a fabric mill, Magees best tweed in Europe - so I can say with some authority that this is not velvet. This is a woven fabric probably a polyester. Industrial grade fabrics are a completely different animal clothing or home furnishing fabrics, due to the amount of stress and swear that they go through. In your reference image you also have alot of wear which causes creasing and additional specular hits ( grease and cleaning agents tend to to this - think of the wear leather wears). Velvet has tiny little hairs - causing the specularity, the falloff in your reference image is caused from the side of the yarn which is shiny, like the way hair appears shiny. The reason I say this is not velvet is because of the way Velvet is woven. You cannot weave these designs in velvet without edges become fuzzy, and blurred and besides you would never use velvet on an airline - think of how many stains it would collect - or the food, how would you clean velvet at the end of each flight?
You might have already done this but I would suggest going to a fabric store and buying a sample of this fabric and pulling it apart. It is really hard to tell from photographs how something it put together - unless of course you studied it for four years
OK this is a rambling post, but I hope it helps.

[3ddesign]

Thought I'd add to the techno-ramble.

Adam is right. The fabric N6 shows is not velvet. That aside, what many people think is Velvet is actually Mohair, and the two render very differently. Falloff is fine for Velvet but isn't a real good solution for Mohair, which is much more complex (due to the variability in length of hair, strength, direction, spacing, etc.).

[n6]

Thought I'd add to the techno-ramble.

Adam is right. The fabric N6 shows is not velvet. That aside, what many people think is Velvet is actually Mohair, and the two render very differently. Falloff is fine for Velvet but isn't a real good solution for Mohair, which is much more complex (due to the variability in length of hair, strength, direction, spacing, etc.).

thanks thanks tghanks for anderstanding that it cant be done with a falloff map! Even if the falloff map may tooks place somewhere in this complex shader, it is not all...

But thanks all for your interest to my problem.
Last thing : I know thoose colors are hugly and that's a real pain for me to work on this model with such crap colors...

[vlado]

Fall-offs are not the same as what actual hairs would produce; in order to get this look properly without fur, one would need back-scattering on the surface. This is similar to reflections, but light goes back towards the viewer, and not in the opposite direction. As such, you'd need a custom shader for this - currently there is no shader in 3dsmax or V-Ray to do it right away.

Best regards,
Vlado

[n6]

Thanks for answering Vlado!
I WAS RIGHT!!!!

[jujubee]

so from a viewer standpoint - looking directly at an velvet the light would be reflected behind the hairs? This hurts my brain.

[3ddesign]

Fall-offs are not the same as what actual hairs would produce; in order to get this look properly without fur, one would need back-scattering on the surface. This is similar to reflections, but light goes back towards the viewer, and not in the opposite direction. As such, you'd need a custom shader for this - currently there is no shader in 3dsmax or V-Ray to do it right away.

Best regards,
Vlado

Vlado, Thanks for the response. I, for one, use Velvet and especialy Mohair very often and have to really work to get it to look right. Mostly I just fudge it in PhotoShop. How difficult is it to write a shader to do this? Are there people out there who could write one?

Craig