Proxies and RAM ?

[bernhard]

memory

@DaForce:
You always use the task manager for controlling the mem ?
Which feature is it ? I've never took to much attention to that very important information... - would be great if you can let me know how you watch the mem usage during a specific render job....

thx a lot,
bernhard

[Shimakaze]

@DaForce & Shimakaze:
about instances... so you mean, if I do have 50 trees, and all the trees are just clones of the first tree, I should use the first tree as my main tree, and all other 49 trees, should be instances from the first original tree, instead of copieng this tree 49times...... right ?

Exactly. When instancing what you're really doing is referencing the original without making a whole new mesh that would have to be loaded into memory. V-ray would only have to load the mesh into memory once rather then 50 times.
in other words it's useful for a lot of things... imagine if you needed lots of bricks for a messed up brick wall (without using displacements) or lots of identical pillars, or a huge forest created from just 3 or 4 different trees instanced a bunch and rotated randomly to make them seem more different. The only drawback with vray proxies is you can't apply modifiers to them but that's a small price to pay for power like this.

Oh and the task manager is a Windows feature. to open it just click control-alt-del or rightclick the taskbar and select task manager.

[bernhard]

Thank you..

Thank you for all your help, that's really great.
I am very happy now with my results, and I think that the proxies are really an excelenct feature.

By the way:
Great People - Great Forum - THANK YOU,
bernhard

[DaForce]

ctrl+shift+esc also gets you the task manager

As an additional note to above. You can only instance proxies anyway, if you copy them they disappear

[Shimakaze]

yea but strangely they still render :P

[bernhard]

hmmm....

I could find out, that if you make a instance, they disappear, but render.
Weired... but if you use Reference, you can see all of them in the viewport.

But it's weired: If you download my scene file i've uploaded for you, and you make instances, they don't disappear - you can see all of them.

In another scene file, they disappear - don't really know what's the reason for, but would be really good to know.

By the way:
is there a big difference, between instance and reference ?


here is the result testing the proxies compared with the regular mesh.

1st: regular mesh


2nd: regular mesh, using 30 instances of them:


3rd: The Proxy render, including 170 clocks



thx,
bernhard

[Shimakaze]

Basically a instance is exactly the same as the original meaning if you change one you change both at the same time, but a reference is a one way link so if you alter the reference it doesn't change the original but changing the original alters the reference. For vrayproxies I don't imagine it makes any difference though, since you can't do much to the proxies beyond positioning them anyway. But there could be some conflicts... haven't tested it.

...that's a LOT of clocks!

[suurland]

dude.. one clock is enough to tell the time..

/Thomas

[vlado]

You can also try to render with the "Dynamic" memory option instead of proxy, it will save a lot of memory on instances and might be somewhat faster.

Best regards,

Vlado

[bernhard]

hmmm...

Thank you guys for all your replies.

@vlado:
Dynamic memory option ? I didn't hear that before. How can I use it, where can I find it, and how effective is it compared to vrayproxies ?

That's really very interesting.


@Shimakaze:
Using the references.. well, i've made a quick test using references instead of instances. Couldn't find any issue yet - seems to be it works as well.


@suurland:
Thomas, hey , nice to hear from you... haha, obviously there are really some clocks to get rid of.... but never trust one clock especially you render with vray proxies, for getting some better scene statics datas ....


thank you for every little help,
bernhard

[vlado]

Re: hmmm...

@vlado:
Dynamic memory option ? I didn't hear that before. How can I use it, where can I find it, and how effective is it compared to vrayproxies ?

In the "V-Ray::System" rollout in the Render Scene dialog, there is a parameter "Default geometry", which is typically set to "Static". If you switch this to the other alternative, "Dynamic", V-Ray will treat each mesh as sort of a proxy, but instead of reading it from a file, will just take it from the 3dsmax scene. The dynamic meshes take a lot less memory, and also instances are very cheap (similar to instances of proxy objects). The drawback is somewhat slower rendering. Ideally it would have been best for the user to choose which meshes are dynamic and which not, but this is not yet implemented.

Best regards,
Vlado

[DaForce]

Vlado, isnt a proxy basically like choosing a specific mesh to be "dynamic"

Or would a dynamic mesh (not proxied) be quicker than its proxied equivilent.

From what I understood, proxy was for specifically choosing objects to be rendering in dynamic memory and switching to dynamic memory is effectivly like putting the whole scene into a proxy of sorts.

So if we were able to specific which objects rendered with dynamic memory wouldnt that make proxy obselete?

[vlado]

Vlado, isnt a proxy basically like choosing a specific mesh to be "dynamic"

Not exactly, although it is similar. The proxy is read from disk, in chunks, while a dynamic mesh is all in RAM. However, if the entire proxy is loaded, it will probably take a similar amount of RAM as a dynamic mesh.

Or would a dynamic mesh (not proxied) be quicker than its proxied equivilent.

They are similar, although a dynamic mesh is expected to be a little faster than a proxy (since there is more book-keeping connected with proxies).

From what I understood, proxy was for specifically choosing objects to be rendering in dynamic memory and switching to dynamic memory is effectivly like putting the whole scene into a proxy of sorts.

Well, the difference is in the disk file component. Also, proxies can be loaded in chunks (only portion of the mesh), while a dynamic mesh is all in memory. Further on, with dynamic memory, each object becomes a separate proxy-like thing, rather than treating the scene as a whole.

So if we were able to specific which objects rendered with dynamic memory wouldnt that make proxy obselete?

Not quite. The dynamic memory option still must keep all meshes in RAM (with instances optimized, of course). Proxies are read from disk. That means that proxies allow you to render larger amounts of unique geometry. And they are also portable across different V-Ray versions (e.g. 3ds Max and Maya).

Anyways, I think I could do the following: add another Geometry mode "Automatic", which would make an estimate of how much memory a mesh will take along with its instances. If this is above a certain threshold, it will create a dynamic mesh for it. Otherwise, it will create static geometry. Along with an option to explicitly specify the geometry type for a mesh, it should make the workflow somewhat easier, I think.

Best regards,
Vlado

[ene.xis]

that would be gr8 Vlado!
looking forward!

[DaForce]

Right got it. So basically ones disk based and the other ram based.
Dynamic memory will use more ram (but still less ram than static) and it will be slightly quicker than proxy. However proxy uses less ram than dynamic but is slightly slower due to increased overheads.

Kind like Half a dozen of one, and six of the other. Very similar, yes?

But they are both there to lessen the ram usage.

The automatic mode you are talking about sounds like a pretty good trade off. And will work better in most cases. As it sounds like there might end up being too many options with basically little difference.

Thanks Vlado