Tweet
No, to my understanding the monitor profile is NOT applied globally to all applications. Each application is responsible for it's own color management.
-
-
In my experience, they are applied globally to all applications by default. It might be possible for an application to turn off the profile, but it must specifically request it. The 3ds Max user interface (including the V-Ray VFB) uses the system ICC profile. The other day I calibrated my monitor using Spyder3 - I can clearly see the difference between flipping the different profiles in the Windows Color Management applet.
Best regards,
VladoI only act like I know everything, Rogers.Comment
-
Ok, it's more to it than loading the gfx-cards lut table, as this is what you see as a "global" change. "Calibration" is a two step process. First, you _calibrate_ your monitor and this tunes the monitor to a "known state" for a certain gamma and color temperature. When this is done the actual color profiling is done. For a sRGB monitor step one is more or less ok, but for a wide gamut monitor the actual color profile is very important, and that is handled by the application on its own.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.Comment
-
Yes, but the image saved from the VFB isn't aware of that profile...Originally posted by vlado View Post
The current monitor profile (or a user selectable one) should be embedded into the bitmap, that would be ideal.
That's the way it works with pictures from cameras.
Or it could be converted to sRGB using the current display profile, similar to Photoshops "export for web" dialog.Marc Lorenz
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
www.marclorenz.com
www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualizationComment
-
This is not difficult to do; but I was under the impression that Tobbe means something else?
Best regards,
VladoI only act like I know everything, Rogers.Comment
-
Since most of my work rely on color proof textures in sRGB as input, I want the rendered image as sRGB or aRGB or any other known state and displayed accordingly. Since the VFB isn't color aware it is outputing raw pixeldata to the monitor, and what you see then is the image with the actual monitor profile assigned. This could be fine if I were to eyeball everything and then as a last step assign the monitor profile and convert to sRGB. But when I have proof color as input in my case, I want the VFB to show me the result as if the sRGB profile was assigned and then viewed through a conversion to the monitor profile.
To actually see my correct result now, I have to open the image i photoshop and assign the sRGB profile to the image.
Does this make sense? I have a hard time explaining....
Comment
-
Fully color managed would mean that all maps and color values used for rendering would be interpreted using their embedded color profile, or by a user selectable default profile, as with After Effects and Photoshop.
This has to be implemented in 3dsmax though, not Vray, I guess.
I'm not fully sure what Tobbe is after, but my opinion regarding full color managed workflow:
It's not really that important.
With a image _generating_ program as 3dsmax/Vray, colors are created from scratch (except maps) and judged by the user in the context of the current monitor color. But as soon as you save out the rendered image, colors are interpreted by other apps in the context of the default profile for bitmaps, which is sRGB. This is the wrong color space with wide gamut displays, so one would have to assign the monitor profile to the file somehow (e.g. Photoshop -> Assign profile) to be able to convert it to any other color space later.Marc Lorenz
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
www.marclorenz.com
www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualizationComment
-
I think the conversion has to take place in every max map with bitmap input, so it's more a job for Autodesk?Originally posted by Tobbe View PostSince most of my work rely on color proof textures in sRGB as input, I want the rendered image as sRGB or aRGB or any other known state and displayed accordingly. Since the VFB isn't color aware it is outputing raw pixeldata to the monitor, and what you see then is the image with the actual monitor profile assigned. This could be fine if I were to eyeball everything and then as a last step assign the monitor profile and convert to sRGB. But when I have proof color as input in my case, I want the VFB to show me the result as if the sRGB profile was assigned and then viewed through a conversion to the monitor profile.
To actually see my correct result now, I have to open the image i photoshop and assign the sRGB profile to the image.
Does this make sense? I have a hard time explaining....Marc Lorenz
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
www.marclorenz.com
www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualizationComment
-
Yes, this is the ideal case... total color management. But I would like to compromise and assume that all input-textures and colors are sRGB. And therefore the output/rendered image also exists in sRGB. Therefore for displaying this image the colors need to be converted to display correctly. input (sRGB) -> Render -> assign sRGB profile -> convert to monitor profile (for display only).Fully color managed would mean that all maps and color values used for rendering would be interpreted using their embedded color profile, or by a user selectable default profile, as with After Effects and Photoshop.
This has to be implemented in 3dsmax though, not Vray, I guess.
You do want a texture to look the same as input and as rendered.Comment
-
The only way to get visual correct color through max or maya now is to convert every input tex or color to the monitor profile....then everything is in monitor color space. But that's absurd as a monitor profile is constantly changing.
I know that autodesk has a huge responsibility here but ultimately the renderer needs to be aware of it's imputs and output. If the output is a known profile then its easy for any viewer (VFB) to display the data in a correct way taking the display profile into account.
Hope I have cleared up some of my babbling....
Comment
-
In my opinion full color managed workflow is critical. I have a dozen consultants working in a dozen offices and all their work has to flow through me to finally be presented on a high end 65" monitor and printed on a 30 x 40 board and the two must match. Further the final image that is displayed/printed also has to match a physical material board. Tell me that full color managed workflow isn't important and I'll beg to differ.Originally posted by plastic_ View PostComment
-
Yes, I'd like to have it too.Originally posted by 3ddesign View Post
However, I'd be happy for now if Vray would allow embedding the monitor icc profile into the output bitmaps.
I'm converting all input bitmaps to sRGB, using Adobe Bridge, to avoid color shifts.Marc Lorenz
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
www.marclorenz.com
www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualizationComment
-
Here is your contradiction... input is sRGB, therefore the output is also sRGB, and should be treated that way. If you are visually pleased it's ok, but it's NOT correct to assign the monitor profile to the image. It should be assigned the sRGB profile and _converted_ to the monitor profile for viewing.However, I'd be happy for now if Vray would allow embedding the monitor icc profile into the output bitmaps.
I'm converting all input bitmaps to sRGB, using Adobe Bridge, to avoid color shifts.Comment
-
Here's the workflow that works for me. My presentation method is 30 x 40 inch print from a six color HP plotter and Powerpoint presentation on a 65 inch monitor.
First, all my monitors and those of my consultants are calibrated with the Spyder 3 at gamma 2.2. My HP plotter is calibrated also.
My Photoshop Working Space and Monitor settings are always Adobe RGB and I have instructed my consultants to do the same. This way every bitmap that comes into Max is consistant and displays a wider gamut of colors. The input and output gammas are set at 2.2 in the Preference Settings and Affect Color Selectors and Material Editor boxes are checked. When rendering I use the Max frame buffer. The rendered 16 bit tiff is automatically converted to Adobe RGB when opened in Photoshop. By doing this, I have found that the Max frame buffer image looks almost identical to the image opened in Photoshop.
For presentation prints, I set my HP plotter color space to Adobe RGB and let Photoshop manage color using the Printer Profile created by the Spyder 3. For PowerPoint images, I create a very low compression jpg that has been converted to sRGB because PowerPoint only recognizes that color space (AFAIK).
Using this method has virtually eliminated color "surprises" that used to plague my presentations.Comment
-
It would be better if the input maps also would be tagged with the monitor profile, instead of sRGB...but I can't do that with all my textures.Originally posted by Tobbe View Post
I can live with wrong saturated textures in 3dsmax.
I'm still using the monitor profile on the output file, because all I want in the end is that the saved image looks the same as in the VFB.Marc Lorenz
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
www.marclorenz.com
www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualizationComment
Comment