About noise in general

[BBB3]

I still struggle a lot with BF. I've basically stopped using it. I also struggle a lot with noise even when using IM/LC (for instance when using a DomeLight).

But Vlado says he's done extensive tests and neither noise nor render times differ between 1.5 and 2.0

So I guess it's a checkmate...

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

maybe time to post that scene i sent you Bertrand? )....the one where the noise goes up when you UP the settings )

[Morne]

maybe they employed some1 that use to work for Autodesk. Byebye VRay

[pixela]

I still struggle a lot with BF. I've basically stopped using it. I also struggle a lot with noise even when using IM/LC (for instance when using a DomeLight).

But Vlado says he's done extensive tests and neither noise nor render times differ between 1.5 and 2.0

So I guess it's a checkmate...

Actually I gave up using BF too.

[skogskalle]

what happens if you open a scene made with vray 1.5 and render it in 2.0? is it more noisy? Or could it be that the new features implemented in the latest versions dont work well with bf? (i havent really experienced this increased noise or slowdown but i never use bf and mostly do exteriors so thats probably why...) have you sent the problematic scenes to Vlado?

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

i have a scene where i dont use BF, but IM/LC
in that scene, DMC behaves very oddly......by raising DMC value from 1/4 to 1/16, i actually produces noisier result
happy to share with Chaos...no clue why it behaves like this.

As with the bruteforce scenes, yes its almost unusable when using a lot of whites ... the rendertime is just unberable, considering i am usually using 5+ DR slaves..

I am still waiting on some really elaborate explanation of how to use and optimize the DMC in vray 2.2 by Chaos......clearly i am not the only one having troubles with it and its almost impossible we could be all doing the same mistake....and if so....its on Chaos guys to show us the correct way

As i ve said many times on this forum....in this way the vray online manual is just a feature list with feature description.....you have to do a lot of hit and miss trials to properly understand them which is very tedious

I dont want this for free...i would be happy to pay just as i paid for Francesco Legrenzi s book

[lllab]

"in that scene, DMC behaves very oddly......by raising DMC value from 1/4 to 1/16, i actually produces noisier result",

>> if this tutorial about dmc is right, which i guess it is, this is no wonder:
http://www.interstation3d.com/tutori...yfing_dmc.html

in end the threshold is the main quality factor. of you raise the max samples vray gets a bit faster but also noisier(explained good in the dmc tutorials why), so to compensate i lower the threshold.
for me interesting is that it 1x100x 0.005 is still faster than 1x4x 0.01, specially if i use high subdivisions in glossy materials

[pengo]

I'd like to thanks everyone posted in this thread very useful infos I got but anyway some Vlado replies would be appreciated i'd say to make clearest ideas about the settings.

[BBB3]

skogskalle: typically, if I open an old scene that used to render clean and reasonably fast in the olden days, it will now get stuck. It may take 30 minutes or an hour for one bucket to clear and I get a silly estimated render time, like 245 hours. Any attempt to lower the settings and make it render faster will introduce the dreaded noise again.

Actually, I just don't get any clean renders these days. Even with IM/LC. I just fudge it: by using extremely low IM settings; by rendering noisy images at very high resolution and downsampling; by avoiding "tricky" situations that render especially slowly; by artificially lowering the exposure of my images and brightening them in post; by removing noise post-render. Lately, and for the first time ever, I abandonned a project simply because it would not render clean in a reasonable amount of time.

Of course, I am talking about complex scenes here - interiors, lots of bouncing lights, lots of glass, reflections, glossies, complex layered materials, lots of very high-res textures with low or no filtering - all things that tend to slow Vray, but not much more complex than in the old days. Of course, simple set-ups and test scenes always render fine and fast, regardless of the GI engine, but these are not real-life examples and therefore useless as benchmarks. And of course, when you get issues with such complex scenes, with GBs of data attached, it's not so easy to send them to Chaos for debugging.

I accept I may be doing something wrong. Indeed I'm pretty sure I am. And I'll keep using Vray, hoping for improvements or enlightenment. But clearly, with the render times I'm hitting and the general degradation in the quality of my images, I'm also looking more and more at unbiased solutions, some of which have been getting much faster in recent years. My interest is not in the tool, only in the output.

[rivoli]

Actually, I just don't get any clean renders these days.

reading this kind of make me happy not to have upgraded from 1.5 yet...

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

damn....it would be a big loss if you move to another render package Bertrand!!!

older scenes render slow in 2.2...i have to merge the scene into a completely new max file and set it up all over again in order to render faster...but i guess you know and have tried it

i am very surprised these things are just discussed among users and Chaosgroup remains silent

Can you please post the best time you had rendering your loft scene you sell on TS in Bruteforce?
I ll buy it and try to have a go with its settings...

[Morne]

i am very surprised these things are just discussed among users and Chaosgroup remains silent

You can say that again

[BBB3]

I can't render that scene in BF. Not clean anyway and not with my lone Xeon eight core machine.

I'm not moving to another render package any time soon. There are things that are only doable in Vrays. But I may use more than one in the future.

[pixela]

I can't render that scene in BF. Not clean anyway and not with my lone Xeon eight core machine.

I can't render my old scenes noise-free or as fast as before just like you.
When we first started to discuss this problem, I wrote to Vlado and he asked me for a scene and I sent WIP of my Bronte scene to Vlado.
In fact, there were some other bugs which he solved and replied me ans sent me newer builds.
But this noise problem still remains unsolved.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

I can't render my old scenes noise-free or as fast as before just like you.
When we first started to discuss this problem, I wrote to Vlado and he asked me for a scene and I sent WIP of my Bronte scene to Vlado.
In fact, there were some other bugs which he solved and replied me ans sent me newer builds.
But this noise problem still remains unsolved.

so its not really about understanding how DMC works