Ideas on making V-Ray's sampling UI more intuitive.

[jstrob]

Perhaps a good solution would be to take the Basic, Advanced, and Expert mode concept that was introduced in V-Ray 3.0 and streamlining it into just two modes: Basic and Advanced

In Basic mode most sampling controls are hidden and only a noise threshold / time limit is given to the user to control overall image quality.
In this mode V-Ray can do whatever Vlado feels is the best 'auto-pilot' approach to reaching the final image quality as efficiently as possible.
This is the mode you'll want to stick to if you're granted the luxury of being in the 'Artist time is more valuable than Machine time' camp.

Then the Advanced mode gives the user full control over the sampling throughout your scene, which is hopefully presented in a way that is similar to my mockup to make it as user-friendly and intuitive as possible, while still offering low-level control of how V-Ray will be sampling the scene.

Again I totally agree with you!

I don't think 3 modes (basic adv exp) were necessary. And since it seems there are 2 kinds of vray users why not make 2 modes that give them what they need?

[Nicinus]

Didn't there use to be a VRay Advanced? Two versions could make sense marketing wise as well. Vray that competes with Corona, and then Vray Advanced that lets you tinker under the hood.

[Neilg]

that's because the other version was a very generous demo - calling it advanced made it more obvious that the free version was limited in controls too.

I agree that 3 modes arent needed - you're either all basic, or all expert. dont know anyone that uses a mix. and if they did and worked for me i'd probably just get them to maybe start learning the software that we pay them to use.

[vlado]

Didn't there use to be a VRay Advanced? Two versions could make sense marketing wise as well.

No, V-Ray is just one and I don't think it is wise to split it. The Basic version never sold too well really, and people always had the feeling that they are missing on something so they still preferred to buy the more expensive version anyways. Besides it's a burden on the development process that's probably not justified to support - especially now, anything that prevents us from iterating builds fast is highly undesirable.

Best regards,
Vlado

[piotrus3333]

this discussion could greatly benefit from insight from somebody learning vray right now.
My opinion is accessibility is very good. with quick setting and mat library you can start rendering in no time.
One thing that needs to be improved is manual - it should contain description on this new workflow based on min shading rate - its super easy to set up and still tweakable if needed.

[Morne]

How about setting an INI file with user specific features. For example you have the basic, advanced etc, but then also a CUSTOM one. It could bring up an optional interface with checkboxes. The user would select which features he wants to see and then next time he can just load his own CUSTOM UI.

Then for example a user can set it so that the only setting he/she see, is min shading rate

[vlado]

How about setting an INI file with user specific features. For example you have the basic, advanced etc, but then also a CUSTOM one. It could bring up an optional interface with checkboxes. The user would select which features he wants to see and then next time he can just load his own CUSTOM UI.

It is a logical idea and I've thought about it, of course. The downside is that it's such a lot of work that I have to give up everything else for a few months just to do that. I have not yet managed to convince myself that the amount of work is justified.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Neilg]

It's not worth it, you already have basic/advanced/expert. people should just learn to ignore things they dont want to use.

Anyone in our office learning vray get started on the default settings (with expert UI) and we show them AA, subdivisions in materials/lights and show them how to hunt for noise in passes. that's all 99% of people who use vray ever need to do. the ir map presets and using 40/20 or 160/80 to change quality is easy enough to understand. It's not a big interface, it's well organised.
by the end of a single day (usually a couple hours) they know enough to get noise free renders and get quicker results than most people on this forum seem to be getting. Then they can focus on learning more important vray things like how to light and design materials.

[piotrus3333]

almost bombproof workflow for begginers:

1. model+shaders+lights (default subdivs, default vray settings)
2. vray quick settings, select preset: interior bf+lc progressive
3. enable embree if available
4. progressive sampler: time 0, noise 0.01 (or 0.005 for superbombproof)
5. save quick setting preset - from now on using only quick settings window

interior: bf+lc - set GI slider to get lc samples a bit over square root of [image height]*[image width]
exterior: bf+bf - leave GI slider alone

7. AA slider - move to 10 max subdivs
8. control the quality with shading slider - lets say 10-50
9. if not getting quality needed - set shading to 64 and progressive sampler noise to 0 and max subdivs to 100 - than wait a while - quality is on the way.

intuitive enough? one preset, 3 sliders, one drop down menu (to rule them all)

[Nicinus]

Great, only 9 steps of complete mumbo jumbo for someone new to rendering.

[Neilg]

yeah that's not simple. 'control the quality with this, but if that doesnt work do this and wait 40hrs' requires experience to know where that cutoff lies.

[piotrus3333]

it's simpler that learning vray's sampling magic. with a few instructive pictures switching those options inside expert settings shouldn't be a problem - we're talking somebody that had just created a model in 3ds max and applied vray mats from some mat library.

step no 9. is only for rare cases - and it will be much faster than 40h - you quit the render when it's clean enough for you. it's reasonably good backup plan - simpler than anything else.

[Neilg]

It's really not. use the default settings with reflection, raw light, sample rate pass. if there is noise on an object, or light, raise the subdivisions on it. new people to vray need to be able to follow a logical path that's very easy to understand, going straight into thresholds and shading sliders is a bit abstract and super heavy handed, giving much slower renders.

[piotrus3333]

just give it a try.
I still think that moving one slider from left to the right to get cleaner image is better for beginners than "Demystifying V-Ray DMC Sampler". They will get there finally, let them get a few decent renders first.

I consider shading slider less abstract than some value between [12*12]*[[(64*64*1)/144]*(1-0.85)] and [12*12]*[(64*64*1)/144]

and those settings are pretty fast.

[piotrus3333]

forgot about min samples value but you get the picture.