3dsmax 2017

[jstrob]

Bobby, Jstrob: For Max, I'm still on the old maintenance scheme and so far they haven't kicked me out. So I pay in the region of €600 for a yearly upgrade and I get to keep it whatever happens. It's not easy for me to switch to a different package because I model assets for sale and offering a max version is a must. But the minute they force me into the rental scheme, that's when I'll leave.

Yes me too, but for me it's around 850$ CAD so approx 600 euros too.

But since you have a perpetual license you don't need to pay the yearly maintenance fee if you don't upgrade? That's how I understand it.

I was planning to stop upgrading and just keep max 2017. I have still a few weeks to decide.

[BBB3]

Yes, that's right. If you stop paying maintenance, you get to keep and use what you have--main difference with the rental plan, where you lose everything.
One thing to consider though is that old maintenance plans were merely grandfathered. If you exit, you can't get back in. Also, you lose the right to use older versions of Max that you may still have installed. So right now, it would be tricky for me as I would only be able to use Max 2017, which I don't use.

Lukx: I've tried C4D in the past, which is probably the main package people use in Germany, but I found it impossible to get into. The philosophy's just too different. I kind of like Modo, though I haven't touched it for ages, and I used to be very comfortable in Blender when I was using it something like 10 years ago. It's changed a lot since then.

[rikou]

I remember have seen some stills from you with Blender... 10 years ?? woooh ! long time ago
Do you ever test Blender today ? it's certainly very different but I guess also better.. !

[jstrob]

Yes, that's right. If you stop paying maintenance, you get to keep and use what you have--main difference with the rental plan, where you lose everything.
One thing to consider though is that old maintenance plans were merely grandfathered. If you exit, you can't get back in. Also, you lose the right to use older versions of Max that you may still have installed. So right now, it would be tricky for me as I would only be able to use Max 2017, which I don't use.

Lukx: I've tried C4D in the past, which is probably the main package people use in Germany, but I found it impossible to get into. The philosophy's just too different. I kind of like Modo, though I haven't touched it for ages, and I used to be very comfortable in Blender when I was using it something like 10 years ago. It's changed a lot since then.

WTF we loose the right to use older versions???? I also sell on turbosquid so I need to save up to max 2012. Are you sure about that one?

Anyway I will be ready to go to court if they want to cause I bought my older license so they are mine. It's the same as when AD when to court and lost about a similar subject:

The court smacked Autodesk over the right to sell used software on eBay. The judge confirmed that we have the right to sell old softwares. So if we can sell them I guess we can also use them!
see this:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...used-software/

I guess it's because of that decision that they created the subscription and cloud scheme.

About Modo, it looks quite amazing now. I just recently learned it was made by the crew who made Ligthwave.

Blender is amazing too but I don't think it's quite ready to tackle everything just nw. but in 1 or 2 years, it will be. Now displacement is a "experimental feature" and layers a still lacking though plugins exists.

[jstrob]

Just found a script supposed to be able to save to previous max versions.
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/sc...savetoprevious

[BBB3]

Ha! I always have the latest builds of Blender installed and I've been meaning to check it out... But I never do.

jstrob: I'm pretty sure that's what the small print says. Also, I seem to remember that even now, new restrictions have been introduced about the number of old versions you can support. I need to check but I only have two versions installed anyway because my system HD is pretty much maxed out.

[BBB3]

Here's what the Autodesk website says:

"If your maintenance plan expires you can continue using your perpetual licenses. However, you will lose maintenance benefits such as updates, access to previous versions, technical product support, flexible license rights, and access to select cloud services.

• Version Rights: You retain perpetual license rights for the most recent version of your software that you installed and activated under your maintenance plan. For example, if you originally purchased a 2014 version of your software but upgraded to the 2016 version while your maintenance plan was active, you retain perpetual license rights to the 2016 version after your maintenance plan ends. You should download installation files and record your activation information for the most recent version activated under your maintenance plan for future use if needed."

[jstrob]

Here's what the Autodesk website says:

"If your maintenance plan expires you can continue using your perpetual licenses. However, you will lose maintenance benefits such as updates, access to previous versions, technical product support, flexible license rights, and access to select cloud services.

• Version Rights: You retain perpetual license rights for the most recent version of your software that you installed and activated under your maintenance plan. For example, if you originally purchased a 2014 version of your software but upgraded to the 2016 version while your maintenance plan was active, you retain perpetual license rights to the 2016 version after your maintenance plan ends. You should download installation files and record your activation information for the most recent version activated under your maintenance plan for future use if needed."

Ok that just means we loose access to the file download I guess. If we backed them up we are ok. Anyway I don't think they will sue anyone for using his old version? And anyway I tried upgrading to max 2017 but it didn't work because of AD fault. And my goal is to completely replace max one day or the other. If AD makes accelerate the move by its fine prints it will be just another kick in the butt for me to complete my houdini/blender swtich. for turbosquid I can always use max 2017 if they make it work one day and save to previous version up to 2014 and use the script I found to save to older versions if needed.

[glorybound]

Or, perpetually keep things broken so you need to subscribe for the fix. Face it, we all like new things and software isn't any different. Also, in reality, one project pays for your subscription all year, so it isn't really that much. For less than a cup of Starbucks a day, you can hold a MAX subscription .

[jstrob]

In fact it's exactly the same as the case where Autodesk lost. We purchased something so we own it. I looked for the exact sentence where they used the word "purchased" and it disapeared from alll the autodesk pages I could find with google. The sentence is there in the google preview but when you go on the page it's not there.

Anyway. The more I think about it the more I'm angry and I'll find a way to switch and still sell models!

[BBB3]

The way I read it is that once your maintenance contract expires, you lose the right to use anything but the most recent version. Here's what the FAQ says.
As for the ability to download previous version, Autodesk now only stores versions of Max back to 2015 (at least that's what I get access to even though I've been on maintenance for much longer)

"What happens to my Previous Version Rights if my contract expires?

You may install and access eligible previous versions, as long as your contract for that product is active. Previous Version Rights terminate when the applicable contract terminates or expires for any reason. Upon contract expiration, users must cease all use of any previous version and uninstall all copies of the previous version. For perpetual licenses that are not active on a maintenance plan, license usage is determined by the Software License Agreement. Once a subscription expires, all previously licensed, installed and accessed versions which were licensed, installed and accessed pursuant to the expired subscription are no longer eligible for use."

[jstrob]

Or, perpetually keep things broken so you need to subscribe for the fix. Face it, we all like new things and software isn't any different. Also, in reality, one project pays for your subscription all year, so it isn't really that much. For less than a cup of Starbucks a day, you can hold a MAX subscription ��.

Over ten years, 850$ a year is 8500$. Take that amount and invest it in the sctock market over ten years, if you do it right you can easily end up with 20 000$. And anyway I don't drink coffey and certainly not from Starbuck, they are so expensive!!! LOL!

What's expensive is never a single subsricption, it's all of them combined: max, thinkbox, plugins etc. On the other hand with blender and Houdini indie, it will cost me only 199$ a year and I can do so much more! But yes once I will make more money and stop being eligible for indie version, I will have to pay more.

[jstrob]

The way I read it is that once your maintenance contract expires, you lose the right to use anything but the most recent version. Here's what the FAQ says.
As for the ability to download previous version, Autodesk now only stores versions of Max back to 2015 (at least that's what I get access to even though I've been on maintenance for much longer)

"What happens to my Previous Version Rights if my contract expires?

You may install and access eligible previous versions, as long as your contract for that product is active. Previous Version Rights terminate when the applicable contract terminates or expires for any reason. Upon contract expiration, users must cease all use of any previous version and uninstall all copies of the previous version. For perpetual licenses that are not active on a maintenance plan, license usage is determined by the Software License Agreement. Once a subscription expires, all previously licensed, installed and accessed versions which were licensed, installed and accessed pursuant to the expired subscription are no longer eligible for use."

Yes they say: "For perpetual licenses that are not active on a maintenance plan, license usage is determined by the Software License Agreement. "

So we have to read that agreement to know if we can use it. and that ageement was demolished in court by a judge when they say you don't own what you bought. The judge said that we own it. The transaction was everything like a purchase so we own it for life.

What autodesk writes in their agreements is one thing and what the law says is another thing. I just have to abid to the Canadian law, not autodesk agreement.

[jstrob]

I just found out in the max 2012 agreement this:



So if we are not on subscription, we must destroy all previous verions 120 days after installing the newest one! LOL what a bunch of <CENSORED>.

No way I'm staying with such a company! I have 120 days to switch my pipeline! (in fact I still believe that their threats are not even legal so don't be afraid.)

At least I you know it. With all the money and decades of time you invest to learn this software (like probably many others) you are left only with the latest version if you stop paying (if you believe AD). So if one day Autodesk make a bad version that doesn't work and so you decide to stop paying, the catch is that your are left only with the crap! to know if that version is crap you have to install it and poufff! Once you install it you are stuck with it and must destroy the previous version! I think we must inform users about that, or I'm probably the only one who doesn't read all the fine prints!

[jstrob]

I contacted SideFX to know about their fine prints before I buy a full perpetual license and they told me this:

If you buy a perpetual license it will always be yours.
The license will be upgraded to the newer version as long as you are paying for AUP (maintenance). If you stop paying for AUP, the licenses will no longer be upgraded, but they will still be yours to use.
Our licensing system is a big different than 3ds Max. If you have licenses for, say, version 16.0, these will allow you run all previous versions of Houdini, regardless of the fact you never bought licenses for the previous versions.

Good to know! If you buy Houdini it's like if you are buying any other product (with the added bonus of all previous version) and it seems more is in synch with how the Law considers these types of transactions.