3dsmax 2017

[Alex_M]

So, Blender is a modeling software with a built in renderer (cycles). V-Ray makes a plugin- which is awesome, but what is Houdini? I went to their web page, but to a layman, it wasn't very clear.

It's like Maya - an animation and FX package but allegedly much more powerful. It is also said that it needs no plugins since you could do pretty much anything with it - water sims, cloth sims, destruction, explosions, procedural mesh generation etc. etc. Apparently big blockbusters are made with it. If you're doing strictly arch-vis I would say it's not something you want to mess with. Here's a little demo of what you can do with it.

[glorybound]

So, Houdini has nothing to do with Blender? Blender on steroids?

[jstrob]

So, Blender is a modeling software with a built in renderer (cycles). V-Ray makes a plugin- which is awesome, but what is Houdini? I went to their web page, but to a layman, it wasn't very clear.

Blender is not just for modeling and rendering (unlike zbrush) , you can animate, do effect, paint, do movie editing, camera tracking, compositing, VFX, fluid sim, particles, sculpt like abrush, so it touches everything in the animation pipeline.

Same thing for Houdini, it's by far the best solution for VFX, but it can also do anything (modelign, animation, rendering, workflow, games, vfx, crowds). Though it's a bit difficult to use in term of modeling. But they are committed to make it more and more good in modeling and character animation in the coming versions.

see their road map video from Siggraph 2016: https://vimeo.com/178392971
ans see what the Shed did in term of character animation with it: https://vimeo.com/167542179

At 199$ for indie, it's an incredibly powerful tool for a price lower than most of Max plugins. you can use it as a swiss tool plugin for max (transfering animated geo via alembic, you can also transfer particles and volume like cloud, fir and smoke). for example in archviz, you could probably use it only for crowds if you want. you could also use it for procedural modeling for some complex architectural structure, model and animate growing trees, creates clouds (and import them in max to render via VDB in V-Ray).

[glorybound]

The Houdini demo reel is impressive. It seems to do everything MAX can do, but at a 1/10th of the price. Why in the heck is anybody still investing in 3DS MAX? Shouldn't all VFX people be rushing to it, from MAX? Once the modeling part gets smoothed over, Autodesk might need to wake up.

[jstrob]

So, Houdini has nothing to do with Blender? Blender on steroids?

The thing they have in common is that if you qualify as an indie for houdini, both are very cheap. Blender is free and houdini is only 199$/year, no plugin needed.

That's why I just feel like I have no choice to learn them. Every time I need to buy a 1000$ plugin for max cause I need to do something that max alone can't do, I spend a full night learning blender and Houdini!

[jstrob]

The Houdini demo reel is impressive. It seems to do everything MAX can do, but at a 1/10th of the price. Why in the heck is anybody still investing in 3DS MAX? Shouldn't all VFX people be rushing to it, from MAX? Once the modeling part gets smoothed over, Autodesk might need to wake up.

For Indies users it's cheap with some limitation. But for bigger companies, it's 4500$ for the full version or 2000 for the basic version (PERPETUAL LICENSE!!!). that's the catch. if you need to grow, it becomes more expansive, but in my opinion still lower than max and plugins (for example 3 year of max (3970)+forest pro(240)+growFx(325)+hairfamr (700)+phoenixFD(1000)+frost(495) and you are already at 6730 and you don't do half what houdini can do!. Also considering the fact that houdini (as weel as blender) are available for Linux which is a free OS, you can save a lot setting up a render farm (and mantra render license are illimited with the 4500$ version).


Like I said indi has some limitation but for 199$ you can get 1 Houdini license plus 3 houdini engine licenses that you can use for rendering and simulating.


INDIE LICENSE

Commercial usage of Houdini Indie is limited to following:

The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD
Commercial entities and contracting entities can purchase a maximum of 3 Houdini Indie and 3 Houdini Engine licenses
Houdini Indie cannot be used in the same pipeline as commercial versions of Houdini
Houdini Indie uses its own file format for saving scenes and assets
It is restricted to 1920x1080 when rendering out animations
Houdini Indie works with the following third party renderers: RenderMan, Arnold and OctaneRender. Redshift, V-ray and Maxwell Render will be supported in the future.
Please refer to the EULA [End User License Agreement] for specific details regarding these restrictions.

[Lupaz]

Why isn't anyone considering cinema 4d? I don't get it.

[padre.ayuso]

Personally, I don't want to spend more money. If I'm changing software, then I'll change to something I don't have to feel compromised to pay. Blender seems to do that and it seems like an awesome software that will do what I need.

[jstrob]

Why isn't anyone considering cinema 4d? I don't get it.

I think Cinema4D looks very powerful and the big plus compared to Blender and Houdini is that V-Ray for C4D looks much more developed and production ready). I have a few people using it in my region. And yes it could be an alternative too. But Houdini is far more powerful and is cheaper (though cinema4d have many options they don't seem to offer option of a full featured version for indie users like Houdini). Blender is free. So I bought Houdini and I installed Blender and I am learning them (I'm still learning max too cause I will always use my perpetual license along with them) so I really have no time to learn cinema4D. I even won a license a few years ago and just sold it (which Maxon kindly allowed and helped transfer the license, not a thing Autodesk would do!).

[rikou]

[...]So I bought Houdini and I installed Blender and I am learning them (I'm still learning max too cause I will always use my perpetual license along with them) so I really have no time to learn cinema4D. I even won a license a few years ago and just sold it (which Maxon kindly allowed and helped transfer the license, not a thing Autodesk would do!).

Totally agree with you, it is (at least for me) the best ever solution we have today. I just doubt on max ... How long will we be able to use our perpetual license ??

[Alex_M]

I think Cinema4D looks very powerful and the big plus compared to Blender and Houdini is that V-Ray for C4D looks much more developed and production ready). I have a few people using it in my region. And yes it could be an alternative too. But Houdini is far more powerful and is cheaper (though cinema4d have many options they don't seem to offer option of a full featured version for indie users like Houdini). Blender is free. So I bought Houdini and I installed Blender and I am learning them (I'm still learning max too cause I will always use my perpetual license along with them) so I really have no time to learn cinema4D. I even won a license a few years ago and just sold it (which Maxon kindly allowed and helped transfer the license, not a thing Autodesk would do!).

A quick question. Why did you buy Houdini Indie when there's an Apprentice version which is totally free and basically the full featured $4500 package but meant for personal use (you are not allowed to use it on commercial jobs)? It has a few more restrictions like no third party renderers but it's basically the full package with all tools. Is it because you wanted to actually start doing commercial projects with Indie right away?

Totally agree with you, it is (at least for me) the best ever solution we have today. I just doubt on max ... How long will we be able to use our perpetual license ??

Is Autodesk even legally allowed to revoke perpetual licenses that we've already bought?

[rikou]

I can't tell you, I don't know but I would be surprised if it could be done... Even if nothing that AD does surprises me !

[glorybound]

Autodesk obviously leaves things broken in previous releases, so if you don't subscribe, they'll just stop supporting you. Isn't that exactly what Microsoft is doing? They'll cripple your software so you have to subscribe. Your maintenance contract will expire, so your only alternative would be to be a subscription holder to get updates.

[jstrob]

A quick question. Why did you buy Houdini Indie when there's an Apprentice version which is totally free and basically the full featured $4500 package but meant for personal use (you are not allowed to use it on commercial jobs)? It has a few more restrictions like no third party renderers but it's basically the full package with all tools. Is it because you wanted to actually start doing commercial projects with Indie right away?



Is Autodesk even legally allowed to revoke perpetual licenses that we've already bought?

I could have wait to buy the Indie since I didn't use it yet commercially. But I wanted to be ready anytime and set up my render farm so I can do distributed simulation job and rendering.

I don't think it would be legal for Autodesk to revoque our license the same way it's not legal for them to prevent us to resale our perpetual license, but Autodesk still went to court anyway over this just to get smacked. So I would not be surprised if they go to court to try to prevent us from using our perpetual license in the future. Did you see the documentary "The Corporation" A corporation like Autodesk is always showing symptoms of psychopathy, e.g., the callous disregard for the feelings of other people, the incapacity to maintain human relationships, the reckless disregard for the safety of others, the deceitfulness (continual lying to deceive for profit), the incapacity to experience guilt, and the failure to conform to social norms and respect the law.

To be clear (what they show in that documentary too) is that the people running those corporation are not psycho at all, they are very nice people and really caring for others. But the way today's corporations are working make the result of the whole entity's action the same as the result of the a psychopat's actions! Because if such entity doens't make mroe and more profit everyday, they will cease to exist.

[jstrob]

Autodesk obviously leaves things broken in previous releases, so if you don't subscribe, they'll just stop supporting you. Isn't that exactly what Microsoft is doing? They'll cripple your software so you have to subscribe. Your maintenance contract will expire, so your only alternative would be to be a subscription holder to get updates.

Talking about Miscrosoft, you have to consider Linux too. When my pipeline will be entirely on Blender and Houdini. I will install Linux everywhere. I just hope Zbrush 5 will work in Linux so everything will work! BTW most 3D app are faster in Linux. Most of time render is 10% faster.